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generator stalls when converter tries to charge battery

hiker108
Explorer
Explorer
I have Yamaha EF2000iSv2 generator.

When RV is hooked up to house A/C and just charging battery (with converter on) my handy dandy watt monitor shows it drawing less than 2 amps.

If I connect RV to generator, I can run lights and heater, etc (approx 6 amps) with battery disconnected. However, if I turn off converter and have battery hooked up, with generator running, it stalls out if I then turn on converter breaker. Watt meter is still showing only 1.6 amps as the generator bogs down and stalls. Weird that this doesn't happen with battery disconnected and OTHER 12 volt stuff turned on!

Any thoughts??

Ed
20 REPLIES 20

Me_Again
Explorer II
Explorer II
We had eu1000i for 12-14 years, it always ran great. Got a larger trailer and in 2017 we were headed to the balloon fiesta in NM. Sold the 1000 and bought a eu2000i, it ran sometimes and missed and died other times. Used it this fall and same thing. Contacted Honda and they acknowledged a tech bulletin to replace the spark plug wire cap.

They sent me the part and I installed it, so far it seems to be running better. Dissected the old one and found the clip that connects to the plug was loose on the top of the plug, moved freely around and in and out on the plug.

Chris
2021 F150 2.7 Ecoboost - Summer Home 2017 Bighorn 3575el. Can Am Spyder RT-L Chrome, Kawasaki KRX1000. Retired and enjoying it! RIP DW 07-05-2021

2manytoyz
Explorer
Explorer
Sounds like a couple of things are going on. I think the power factor is an issue, and your generator is probably starving for fuel.

Power Factor: the ratio of the actual electrical power dissipated by an AC circuit to the product of the r.m.s. values of current and voltage. The difference between the two is caused by reactance in the circuit and represents power that does no useful work.

In an ideal world, the power going into a charger would equate to the power coming out. In the pics below, I have an Iota 75A 12V charger connected to my solar battery bank. Power = Voltage x Current.

75A x 12V = 900 Watts. On the supply side, power should be close to the same 900W/120VAC = 7.5A.

But here are my actual readings:





The charger is supplying almost the full rated 75A, but instead of drawing 7.5 Amps from the generator, it's drawing 13.56 Amps!

13.56A x 120VAC = 1627.2 Watts being supplied by the generator!

A lot of wasted energy from a poor Power Factor.

These chargers usually have a high start up current/charge rate, but tapers off quickly unless the batteries are very dead. That may be enough to stall or trip the overload circuit on a generator. I have a Yamaha EF2400iS, and while it grunted a little, it had enough power to continue charging.

ALL of these small generators (Honda, Yamaha, etc.) that have variable speed engines, have very small jets in them. There's no fine fuel filter inline. Any speck of grit in the fuel can cause issues. If the fuel demand exceeds the available fuel flow, the motor will stall.

Here's how I cleaned my carburetor and added a fuel filter: http://2manytoyz.com/carbfix.html

FWIW, I tried Seafoam. That works on a carburetor that has stale fuel that has become sticky/gummy, but doesn't help with a piece of grit in a jet. These carbs are not difficult to work on. Amazing how well the generators work after a proper cleaning.
Robert
Merritt Island, FL
2023 Thor Quantum KW29
2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited TOAD
2023 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon TOAD
Falcon 2 Towbar, Roadmaster 9400 Even Brake System
http://www.2manytoyz.com/

frankwp
Explorer
Explorer
djousma wrote:
If you have electric water heater, make sure that is off too. On mine that switch is on the WH itself. that element is a 1500 watt, and would for sure kill that EU1000.

Otherwise, is your battery dead or heavily discharged? If so the converter will kick on high output to recharge, and could be your issue too.


I don't want to hijack the OP's thread, but added my comments thinking maybe there may be something about some RV converters that doesn't play well with inverter generators.

In my case, all 120V loads were turned off, just the charger & propane detector were on. Battery is in good shape & charged.
2010 Cruiser CF30QB
2003 GM 2500HD, crew cab, SB, 8.1, Allison

djousma
Explorer
Explorer
frankwp wrote:
I have a Honda EU1000 that won't run the on board charger either. With all 120V circuits turned off, the generator overload cuts out immediately when the trailer is plugged in. Not sure what is going on here. The carb has been cleaned & it runs fine.


If you have electric water heater, make sure that is off too. On mine that switch is on the WH itself. that element is a 1500 watt, and would for sure kill that EU1000.

Otherwise, is your battery dead or heavily discharged? If so the converter will kick on high output to recharge, and could be your issue too.
Dave
2016 F350 Lariat 4x4 FX4 SRW CC SB 6.7 Magnetic Metallic
2017 Forest River Cardinal 3850RL

frankwp
Explorer
Explorer
I have a Honda EU1000 that won't run the on board charger either. With all 120V circuits turned off, the generator overload cuts out immediately when the trailer is plugged in. Not sure what is going on here. The carb has been cleaned & it runs fine.
2010 Cruiser CF30QB
2003 GM 2500HD, crew cab, SB, 8.1, Allison

BarneyS
Explorer III
Explorer III
Ed,
Is the product you are using called Sea Mist or is it Sea Foam brand?
I searched and could not find Sea Mist anyplace.
Barney
2004 Sunnybrook Titan 30FKS TT
Hensley "Arrow" 1400# hitch (Sold)
Not towing now.
Former tow vehicles were 2016 Ram 2500 CTD, 2002 Ford F250, 7.3 PSD, 1997 Ram 2500 5.9 gas engine

hiker108
Explorer
Explorer
Think I got it!! I bought Sea Mist Carb cleaner and ran two cycles of cleaning:

Warm up generator, add about 3 ounces of Sea Mist to a gallon of gas. Run for 15 minutes. Let rest for 1/2 hour. Run again for 20 minutes.

After first cleaning cycle, the Yamaha EF2000si, with all breakers on and fuses in and battery hooked up, ran for about a minute before stalling.

After a second cleaning cycle, the generator ran non-stop, except stalled after a minute when ECO mode turned on. Started again and it kept running, even with ECO.

I'm going to do one more cleaning cycle today for good measure.

I highly recommend Sea Mist to clean the carb. I'll commence to use it before each season from now on!

Thanks for all comments.

Ed

hiker108
Explorer
Explorer
UPDATE: I'm servicing the Yamaha EF2000is. Cleaned the exhaust screen, changed the oil and did a cleaning cyccle with Sea Foam. When I start the generator (ECO off) with the battery hooked up, it now runs for about 30 seconds before stalling. So I will do another Sea Foam cleaning cycle tomorrow. Before servicing, it would stall almost immediately.

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
hiker108 wrote:
UPDATE: I called WFCO and described the problem. Their tech guy said that it is NOT problem with the converter. SO, I will proceed to check out Yamaha generator.
And no doubt gen support will say likewise. They may even be correct and one of yours is defective or design constrained.

You're flying blind and using the shotgun approach to resolution. Find someone with an oscilloscope that can display the AC wave forms which can help.

Or since another charger is OK try another gen.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

time2roll
Explorer II
Explorer II
Have you tried the generator with say a hair drier plugged in direct?

hiker108
Explorer
Explorer
UPDATE: I called WFCO and described the problem. Their tech guy said that it is NOT problem with the converter. SO, I will proceed to check out Yamaha generator.

time2roll
Explorer II
Explorer II
Why do all the convoluted switching battery and pulling fuses?
Make sure the big stuff(air, mw, wh) is off and just plug in and let it rip.

djousma
Explorer
Explorer
hiker108 wrote:
I have Yamaha EF2000iSv2 generator.

When RV is hooked up to house A/C and just charging battery (with converter on) my handy dandy watt monitor shows it drawing less than 2 amps.

If I connect RV to generator, I can run lights and heater, etc (approx 6 amps) with battery disconnected. However, if I turn off converter and have battery hooked up, with generator running, it stalls out if I then turn on converter breaker. Watt meter is still showing only 1.6 amps as the generator bogs down and stalls. Weird that this doesn't happen with battery disconnected and OTHER 12 volt stuff turned on!

Any thoughts??

Ed


Ed,

I see from your signature that you are in Colorado? At what altitude? Most of the generator manufacturers offer a high altitude kit that is just a leaner carb jet. Its not uncommon for any generator to make less power at the higher altitudes.
Dave
2016 F350 Lariat 4x4 FX4 SRW CC SB 6.7 Magnetic Metallic
2017 Forest River Cardinal 3850RL

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
I would also suspect the Wfco as they are lower end not so great chargers. However it could be that either one or both together are the problem in that the design is marginal in terms of generating a "good" sine wave or rejection of a "not so good" sine wave. With the battery connected apparently the Wfco acts differently and the gen stalls. I suggested AC noise which can be viewed with the right equipment.

ScottG posted some tests indicating it just might also be your gen.

At any rate there are many posts concerning Wfco poor battery charging.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob