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Is the EV transformation of the market over hyped ?

Lessmore
Explorer
Explorer
Interesting article about IC gas and Diesel and Electrical Vehicles. This would also include tow vehicles.


EV vehicles market domination over hyped ?

In some ways I think the manufacturers are giving us mixed messages. GM says that they will introduce about 20 new EV vehicles by 2023, yet on the other hand have just introduced a new 3 liter , 6 cylinder diesel for their 1500 truck series and new..or at least revamped 6.6 liter IC gas engine and 6.6 liter IC Diesel engine for their 2020 HD pickup truck line.

So what gives, as we used to say in high school ?
173 REPLIES 173

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Personally I prefer consumption taxes because then those who make the most purchases pay the lion's share of the tax.

But, normally I'm on the down side of the consumption graph. Furnishing my retirement condo has been an eye opener.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

time2roll
Explorer II
Explorer II
Yes sales tax alone is considered regressive. That is why the basics are often excluded. Income tax is progressive.
Fuel tax would seem to be more like sales tax so I believe it is regressive.

Lynnmor
Explorer
Explorer
Bedlam wrote:
My state charges an additional fee for annual road registration if you own a BEV. They are testing GPS trackers which actually log how many miles you travel within the state - Now that’s big brother watching you since they can tell where and when you are at any time.


I like the idea of a tracker, I would have that sucker wrapped in aluminum foil in a heartbeat.

fj12ryder
Explorer II
Explorer II
time2roll wrote:
gitane59 wrote:
No one has mentioned road construction or maintenance funding. I have not read or heard a single thing about how road funding will be generated from the all electricity used to recharge all the million's of EV passenger car's and EV commercial truck's that will be charged at homes and commercial location's in some peoples near future.
Maybe not in this thread yet but has been discussed ad nauseum in other posts.

Personally I think the roads can be maintained through general income and sales taxes as they are a bit more progressive. Petrol tax can be shifted to cleaning up the environment.
I think the word you're looking for is "regressive", not progressive.
Howard and Peggy

"Don't Panic"

time2roll
Explorer II
Explorer II
gitane59 wrote:
No one has mentioned road construction or maintenance funding. I have not read or heard a single thing about how road funding will be generated from the all electricity used to recharge all the million's of EV passenger car's and EV commercial truck's that will be charged at homes and commercial location's in some peoples near future.
Maybe not in this thread yet but has been discussed ad nauseum in other posts.

Personally I think the roads can be maintained through general income and sales taxes as they are a bit more progressive. Petrol tax can be shifted to cleaning up the environment.

fj12ryder
Explorer II
Explorer II
Bedlam wrote:
My state charges an additional fee for annual road registration if you own a BEV. They are testing GPS trackers which actually log how many miles you travel within the state - Now that’s big brother watching you since they can tell where and when you are at any time.
Plus tell how long it took you to get there. Then they can just stick that speeding ticket in there along with everything else.
Howard and Peggy

"Don't Panic"

Bedlam
Moderator
Moderator
My state charges an additional fee for annual road registration if you own a BEV. They are testing GPS trackers which actually log how many miles you travel within the state - Now that’s big brother watching you since they can tell where and when you are at any time.

Host Mammoth 11.5 on Ram 5500 HD

gitane59
Explorer III
Explorer III
No one has mentioned road construction or maintenance funding. I have not read or heard a single thing about how road funding will be generated from the all electricity used to recharge all the million's of EV passenger car's and EV commercial truck's that will be charged at homes and commercial location's in some peoples near future. ICE fuel tax is or should be directed towards road construction and maintenance,but how do you isolate and tax only those pesky little electron's flowing into batteries of personal or commercial vehicles at home and business into road maintenance and construction.
Our road funding budget's are dropping as less fuel tax is collected due to increasing ICE fuel economy even though the number of vehicles on the road is increasing and look at the condition of our road's everywhere. They are getting poorer and poorer.
How will government's with all the pressures to spend our tax dollars here, there and everywhere be incentivized to spend want is needed on our road infrastructure.
I know. More big brother. I will automatically get a bill each month based on the mileage driven as sent to the government by my vehicle, the weight of my vehicle and the calculated energy used.
That is if I am even allowed to actually own a vehicle. Some futurist's believe personal vehicle ownership will be outlawed and we will all be riding in government owned autonomous personal communicator app called rideshare vehicles.
What a future!!!
2014 Landmark Savannah, Mor-Ryde IS with Dexter disc brakes, 17.5 wheels with Sumitomo skins,
2010 Ford F350 Lariat CC LB DRW 6.4L Diesel, Firestone Ride Rite Airbags

Reisender
Nomad
Nomad
Grit dog wrote:
Reisender wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
$22 k base model ice, $32 k everything but the kitchen sink; $45 k base model Bev, $55 k everything but the kitchen sink.

Reisender wrote:
That’s actually a good way of comparing the two. I don’t know about Kona prices though Don. What kind of difference is there.


Yah that kinda confirms that. I suppose for the right commuter it would “pay off” but it would take years.

I assume all your numbers are Canadian currency. A Nissan Leaf and a Nissan Murano are similar vehicles. Seems to be about 8000 bucks difference between similar trim lines. For us the 8000 bucks would be worth it but our budget may be better than some. We like new tech and tend to trade off every 5 to 6 years.


lol, similar as in same badge on the grille. Compare price to a Versa...


Might be a regional thing. Here you can’t get a Versa with propilot, rear cross traffic warning, 360 camera view, heated steering wheel etc and on and on and on. A versa also has about half the cargo room. Quite a bit louder. Zero to sixty of around 11 seconds for a Versa vice 6.5 for a Leaf e-plus. Not to mention all the remote app features for a Leaf. I’m not sure a Versa is available in leather. Maybe. One of the neighbours has one. Nice little car. Too small for us.

A Murano SL is comparable in features to a Leaf SL. Even similar inside. We only looked at the SL. Not sure about the others.

Grit_dog
Nomad III
Nomad III
Reisender wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
$22 k base model ice, $32 k everything but the kitchen sink; $45 k base model Bev, $55 k everything but the kitchen sink.

Reisender wrote:
That’s actually a good way of comparing the two. I don’t know about Kona prices though Don. What kind of difference is there.


Yah that kinda confirms that. I suppose for the right commuter it would “pay off” but it would take years.

I assume all your numbers are Canadian currency. A Nissan Leaf and a Nissan Murano are similar vehicles. Seems to be about 8000 bucks difference between similar trim lines. For us the 8000 bucks would be worth it but our budget may be better than some. We like new tech and tend to trade off every 5 to 6 years.


lol, similar as in same badge on the grille. Compare price to a Versa...
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Reisender
Nomad
Nomad
time2roll wrote:
Not going to find a "ton" of savings. Although for plugging in... direct fuel cost should be cut in half or more on the electric miles.

Hybrid does not save on service.

Comparisons I see are ICE vs pure EV and over time the EV can win. Still not a ton of savings. Initial price tends to be the hurdle. Used EVs do seem to come at an especially good price.

Many people fall in love with the smooth quiet effortless electric miles and move to a pure EV. Plenty others see just one more level of complexity, no savings and go back to ICE.


I think the savings thing kinda depends where you are. If you live where gas is cheap and power is expensive the savings could be very little. Where we live gas is expensive and power is cheap. Commuting by EV is about an 1/8th of the cost of gas here.

At this point generally speaking it’s hard to justify buying an EV from the annual saving point of view. At least in my opinion.

Reisender
Nomad
Nomad
pianotuna wrote:
$22 k base model ice, $32 k everything but the kitchen sink; $45 k base model Bev, $55 k everything but the kitchen sink.

Reisender wrote:
That’s actually a good way of comparing the two. I don’t know about Kona prices though Don. What kind of difference is there.


Yah that kinda confirms that. I suppose for the right commuter it would “pay off” but it would take years.

I assume all your numbers are Canadian currency. A Nissan Leaf and a Nissan Murano are similar vehicles. Seems to be about 8000 bucks difference between similar trim lines. For us the 8000 bucks would be worth it but our budget may be better than some. We like new tech and tend to trade off every 5 to 6 years.

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
$22 k base model ice, $32 k everything but the kitchen sink; $45 k base model Bev, $55 k everything but the kitchen sink.

Reisender wrote:
That’s actually a good way of comparing the two. I don’t know about Kona prices though Don. What kind of difference is there.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

time2roll
Explorer II
Explorer II
Not going to find a "ton" of savings. Although for plugging in... direct fuel cost should be cut in half or more on the electric miles.

Hybrid does not save on service.

Comparisons I see are ICE vs pure EV and over time the EV can win. Still not a ton of savings. Initial price tends to be the hurdle. Used EVs do seem to come at an especially good price.

Many people fall in love with the smooth quiet effortless electric miles and move to a pure EV. Plenty others see just one more level of complexity, no savings and go back to ICE.