Chevy DEF system failure

[HuckleberryHunt]

Just sharing for other's reference.

I own a 2016 2500HD diesel. It currently has 40k miles on the OD. Two days ago the check engine light came on. I checked the error code and it came back as a DEF system error (P21DD). I took it to the dealer on Wed morning to have it checked out. It took all day for them to get back to me, but the guy said that it's the DEF tank heater failed and it's a common issue. The parts are on backorder and it could take a month to get them in, so to drive it as is until then. He did say it might go into 'limp' mode at some point. I asked why it takes so long to get parts if these systems are a common issue. He didn't know.

The good news is that the repair is covered under some type of warranty....either emissions or drive train...or both. The guy also wasn't quite sure how that all fit together either. I asked about longevity of the repair and he said it would be covered under a parts warranty for a period of time....which I'm sure is less than 40k miles. It does make me leery of future failures though, but I bought the truck knowing the DEF was likely a PIA, so guess I'll deal with it as it comes.

He did say that GM will be removing the DEF systems on future vehicles because of all the problems they create. I would like to know where he got his information as I've not been able to find any evidence that supports that happening via a web search.

[Grit_dog]

TugCE wrote:
My Brother In Law (2012 3500 Dually with about 120,000 miles on it) was up in Alaska with his Truck Camper last Summer when the DEF Heater went south and put him into Limp Mode. They had to fly one in for him and that took about a week!

He is really considering deleting it but I told him about Canada being tough on people deleting. They go up to and through Canada quite a lot and after I brought it up he is rethinking the idea.

Unless your BIl plans on stopping and titling and registering the truck in Canada on the way through, I’m not sure what the issue would be.
Canada doesn’t give a schitt what you drive through with, emissions wise.
I’m sure you could still get a ticket for rolling coal out of a 8” exhaust tip onto a group of children Waiting for the school bus on the corner if that’s what you mean.
Btw, we delete stuff in Canada too when it doesn’t work right.

[Grit_dog]

Huntindog, I’d like to hear about these many issues with deleted trucks.
And leave out the “I blew my trans after deleting (and 100hp tune and bigger injectors” type of issues.

[ktmrfs]

FlatBroke wrote:
My 03 has none of that garbage, not even a cat. I have to test it once a year because of its age at the cost of $75 per test. Funny how it comes back with ZERO emissions, count e’m ZERO. Now don’t make me have to go out in the rain and get the report out of my glove box and copy it so I have to post it. But, I will. :B

stand behind your 03 and take a wiff when running.

Then stand behind a 2015 when running and take a wiff.

Unless your nose is non functioning, you WILL tell the difference.

The 03's are reasonably clean compared to way before but still has soot and NO2 emissions that ARE noticeable and higher than a 15 or so.

[Sport45]

FlatBroke wrote:
My 03 has none of that garbage, not even a cat. I have to test it once a year because of its age at the cost of $75 per test. Funny how it comes back with ZERO emissions, count e’m ZERO. Now don’t make me have to go out in the rain and get the report out of my glove box and copy it so I have to post it. But, I will. :B

If you can smell or see the exhaust it has emissions.

[FlatBroke]

My 03 has none of that garbage, not even a cat. I have to test it once a year because of its age at the cost of $75 per test. Funny how it comes back with ZERO emissions, count e’m ZERO. Now don’t make me have to go out in the rain and get the report out of my glove box and copy it so I have to post it. But, I will. :B

[Huntindog]

Deleting has many issues.
Read any forum for any brand. MANY MANY posts from those with delete caused issues.

In spite of those, most seem happy to have done it.... I think they are rebels to the system.

IOW, no matter how much trouble it is, they are thrilled to rebel against the EPA emission stuff...
If that is you... Have at it. If not, then consider doing it carefully.

[Huntindog]

Deleting has many issues.
Read any forum for any brand. MANY MANY posts from those with delete caused issues.

In spite of those, most seem happy to have done it.... I think they are rebels to the system.

IOW, no matter how much trouble it is, they are thrilled to rebel against the EPA emission stuff...
If that is you... Have at it. If not, then consider doing it carefully.

[TugCE]

My Brother In Law (2012 3500 Dually with about 120,000 miles on it) was up in Alaska with his Truck Camper last Summer when the DEF Heater went south and put him into Limp Mode. They had to fly one in for him and that took about a week!

He is really considering deleting it but I told him about Canada being tough on people deleting. They go up to and through Canada quite a lot and after I brought it up he is rethinking the idea.

[HuckleberryHunt]

Grit dog wrote:
^ No, not currently. It doesn’t appear to hurt resale value. Yes dealers shouldn’t take them, but they do.
The whole diesel emissions thing is getting like the 70s-80s emissions. Keep it or toss it. No one really cares.
Heck, I work for a company that does $3B a year in volume and if we have emissions problems out of warranty, trucks or equipment gets deleted.

I'm sure this will be the way it goes too. My first truck was a used 1980 Toyota Hilux with a CA emissions system (COMPLEX!). I bought that in 1994 and a previous owner had cut all the lines to the emission system and brazed shut the holes on the exhuast manifold. Living in eastern WA at the time, we didn't have any emissions requirements or checks (that I knew of). I ended up ripping out all the left over emissions junk that wasn't being used to make more room under the hood as it made for really tight working conditions with it in there...and being a Toyota it was still tight working conditions with it gone. The catalytic converter had also been cut out of the exhaust system. That truck served me well until one of the cylinders failed and I opted to sell it.

Imagine if I ever sell my current truck, which I don't plan to do anytime soon, it'd be to a private party anyway. I've yet to have a dealer offer a fair deal on a trade in. Was offered $4k trade in on my last truck and the dealership made it sound like that was a super generous offer. I declined and sold it for $7,300 to the first guy who responded to the ad (listed for $8k = blue book).

[Grit_dog]

^ No, not currently. It doesn’t appear to hurt resale value. Yes dealers shouldn’t take them, but they do.
The whole diesel emissions thing is getting like the 70s-80s emissions. Keep it or toss it. No one really cares.
Heck, I work for a company that does $3B a year in volume and if we have emissions problems out of warranty, trucks or equipment gets deleted.

[Sport45]

Removing emissions systems can also lead to problems when it’s time to trade in. Many dealers won’t take them since the emissions systems have to be restored before they can legally sell them. This is Federal, not state or local law.

[HuckleberryHunt]

Grit dog wrote:

You don't need to emissions test your truck currently. Not sure where you come up with that. 07 and newer diesels are exempt.
You have it at Evergreen? Been waiting almost 2 weeks for a part to come in for my work truck. Loaner truck has gotten a lot of miles waiting on them.

Looks like you're right. I was unaware of the '07 and newer diesel statement. Still wouldn't touch it until the warranty period is up unless absolutely necessary. I have a tendency to stick to stock builds on vehicles unless it's a toy (off road). Maybe someday. Until then, I hope it lasts.

[Grit_dog]

HuckleberryHunter wrote:
As much as I'd like to delete the DEF system I won't be doing it anytime soon for a few reason. One, we live in an emissions regulated area, at least for now. However, I've read that WA is ending the emissions check program in 2020, so happy to hear that.

Additionally, removing the DEF system voids any GM warranties as well, so not going to mess with that until the warranty period is completely up. I've read that it's in the $1K ballpark to get repairs done on this out of pocket, which is about the cost of deleting the system, so would defiantly delete it vs. repair it if I ever get in that situation.

As for the extended warranty, I've read multiple accounts of the GM letter extending coverage out to the 120k miles, but I have not received any such letter and the guy at the dealership couldn't find evidence that GM did this for the 2016. He did say that it's covered under the powertrain warranty though, which is 100k. I'm a bit skeptical as I haven't seen that in writing either and this is the same guy who said DEF is going away.....

I think I'm more shocked about the inability to get parts rapidly. I haven't had exactly great service from this dealership in the past, so I'm not surprised they don't have the experience or the supplies on hand. Due to the nature of the problem, I doubt it'll directly effect me as it's approaching summer here and the temps are fairly warm. It's more the premise that bothers me. Doubt this is specific to GM, but sure feel like the customer service on their end has been crummy for a while now.

I bought the truck because I've been a long time Chevy owner and overall am happy with the vehicle. It'd sure be a better experience if GM stood behind their products a little more though.
The bumper to bumper warranty expired at 36K miles and when I discovered a leak in the cab at 36,150 that had obviously been going on a while they said "tough luck" as it was out of warranty.
For now I'm still feeling lucky they're going to repair the DEF issue under warranty and it's drivable while I wait.

You don't need to emissions test your truck currently. Not sure where you come up with that. 07 and newer diesels are exempt.
You have it at Evergreen? Been waiting almost 2 weeks for a part to come in for my work truck. Loaner truck has gotten a lot of miles waiting on them.

[4x4ord]

1320Fastback wrote:

spud1957 wrote:
Keep your DEF diesel guys. Lets try and do our part to save the planet for our grand kids. Every little bit helps.

Save the Planet one plastic jug and cardboard box at a time.

Just joking, if does help.

I kind of wonder sometimes what difference it makes whether this planet lasts another 50 years or 50 million years before it spins off into the sun?