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dual AC on 30 amps - I think I made it work

tim1970
Explorer
Explorer
Here is what I did. Middle of day once temperatures start heating up, I switched my water heater and refrigerator over to propane. I unplugged cofee pot, curling iron, and anything else drawing electricity. I even cut off the breaker to the microwave so the clock wasn't drawing power. I also shut off the breaker that charges my batteries. I then turned on one of the AC's and let it run for about a minute. Then I turned on the other one. I have the fan set to "ON" and the thermostat for each unit all the way down, so the two units will not end up cycling at the same time. I realize this is extreme, but so far it is working. Am I harming anything by doing this? Once the sun goes down, I will turn off one of the AC's and resume everything else as normal.
2017 Jayco 29.5 BHDS
42 REPLIES 42

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Splitshaft wrote:
,
You plug in with a good, but not so shiny and or clean 30-amp RV plug or worse yet, one that has copper oxidation already coating its blades. Yes, the copper color, not brass color you see on 30-amp blades is copper oxidation from previous overheating and results in extra electrical resistance. Clean it off or risk a meltdown.


And the best way to clean the blades?

I generally set my demand to a max of 24 amps.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

time2roll
Explorer II
Explorer II
myredracer wrote:
philh wrote:
why would pulling 30a on a circuit rated for 30a be a problem?
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. Technically and by code you should be able to draw 30 amps indefinitely.
Yes and there is also a provision in the code that relates to continuous draw circuits. Code requires a supply 125% of the rated load in this circumstance. (load 80% of supply is mathematically the same). Continuous load is defined as 3+ hours.

This code provision does not apply to a variable load such as an RV. However if you are going to run equipment for 10 hours at this level I and several previous posts recommend following the continuous load rule and limit power to 24 amps.

OK to run at 30 amps too as long as you are not disappointed if something heats up. Running at the very max will test any deficiency.

Splitshaft
Explorer
Explorer
The number of current drawing devices on a RV 30 ampere circuit and the standard plug connection is dependent on the condition of the electrical connections involved as long as the โ€œaverageโ€ current draw for a 30 ampere RV circuit is not exceeded. Average current draw is the Key and what matters, โ€œwhen the current that can flow and electrical components that are protected by the circuit breaker.โ€ 30-amp circuit breakers do not trip immediately at 31 amps, or even 40 amps, and one can trip at only 25 amps under the right conditions. Electrical current flow results in heat and heat is the most common cause of a tripped circuit breaker, however, magnetism can also trip circuit breakers when the current flow is great enough to cause a strong magnetic field in the breaker such as a direct short.

That being covered, burned 30-amp electrical connections are simply due to electrical resistance in a plug and socket and nothing more at or near full current flow supported by the circuit protection device โ€œthe circuit breaker.โ€ A basic understanding of OHMs law is necessary to understand the cause of burned and failed 30-amp RV plugs and sockets. Electrical resistance creates heat, oxidized, corroded, unclean, otherwise loose or damaged plugs and sockets will burnout or melt every time they are called upon to carry the full rated load of a 30-amp circuit. Have you ever wondered why your 30-amp cloths dried plug and receptacle and plug never burnout and melt down? Electrical resistance is the key! Look at the blade size of the 30-amp drier plug, it is the same size as 50-amp RV plugs! The 30-amp RV plug is grossly undersized for the job it is required to do and as such, is doomed to constant burnout and melt down especially when connections are loose and dirty. And 30-amp to 50-amp adapters only hasten the demise of the 30-amp receptacle in a campground power pedestal when power hungry RVs stress them.

Now consider this: even before plugging into a 30-amp power pedestal, 120V are measured with a volt meter under no load. The power pedestal receptacle is loose due to wear and has possibly been over heated before so its internal contacts are oxidized creating electrical resistance. You plug in with a good, but not so shiny and or clean 30-amp RV plug or worse yet, one that has copper oxidation already coating its blades. Yes, the copper color, not brass color you see on 30-amp blades is copper oxidation from previous overheating and results in extra electrical resistance. Clean it off or risk a meltdown. OK, so the AC is running, the refrigerator is running and the water heater is heating and the converter is charging our batteries and powering our 12-appliances all from 120V AC. We are near the rated 30-amps, so why does this stuff always burn out?

Simple, too much electrical resistance. If we measured the voltage drop though the power pedestal receptacle and the RV cord plug and realized a 10-volt drop, so what? 110-volts inside the RV is plenty good to power all of our equipment, right? Well what is happening out at the power pedestal and your RV plug? OHMs law is at hard work heating, melting, and burning stuff up. Voltage x Amperes = Watts (electrical heat) 10 volts drop x 30 amps = 300 watts of power dissipation or heat. Converting watts to heat (BTU) that stuff that comes out of you RV furnace, equals roughly 1,000 BTU! Wow and all that heat has to be dissipated in the 30 amp plug and receptacle. Rubber and plastic melt, burn, and char, brass contacts get hot and oxidize, causing copper oxides, first copper color and then becoming black in color as the copper oxide resistance and heat increase and the 20-percent zinc in the brass contacts vaporizes. That is our 30-amp melt down, until something changes in the industry, we are stuck with it.

barchetta1
Explorer
Explorer
I would put hard start capacitors in each unit. This will reduce start up current in case they both happen to fire up at once. This could happen easily if your short power is lost for a short period of time and then comes back on.. WHAM! A hard start cap will only help with startup, once running they are out of circuit.

Beyond that you have a potential problem. The hotter the ambient temperature the more current the AC's will draw. The motors simply have to work harder and the heat causes a loss of efficiency.

If your main breaker is old Id replace it with a quality unit because you are going to be asking a lot of it. At the campground I am at over memorial day weekend thay ran fans on the breakers. If I were you I would install a fan behind the breaker and run it off of a temperature switch.

Fun project... keep modding! Get the hard start caps! they are cheap!

Bird_Freak
Explorer II
Explorer II
My 04 Pace Arrow came with two a/c's on 30 amp service. Had ems and never a problem.
Eddie
03 Fleetwood Pride, 36-5L
04 Ford F-250 Superduty
15K Pullrite Superglide
Old coach 04 Pace Arrow 37C with brakes sometimes.
Owner- The Toy Shop-
Auto Restoration and Customs 32 years. Retired by a stroke!
We love 56 T-Birds

map40
Explorer
Explorer
Depends on your ACs. I have 2 Atwoods and I can run both with no problem, along with the converter, light and TV. Generator or Campground. Both units are rated at 12.5A and they are 13.5K
The Fleetwood units that come with 30 Amps and 2 ACs use the High efficiency ACs that consume only 9 amps. My 36ft Fiesta LX did 106K miles running 2 ACs on 30 amps, never a problem.
As you see, the answer to "Can I run 2 ACs with 30 amps?" could be depending on a lot of factors.
I say "Yes you can, just check voltage and/or temperature on the plug"
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls

Walaby
Explorer II
Explorer II
I ran two A/C's last week, but I was connected at home, with a solid electrical connection, 30 AMP connection in my garage, on a separate, dedicated circuit, Fridge and HW heater OFF, and not using any other high amp items.

Voltage drop was only 3 volts, steady at 117, normally steady at 120. Cord and plug cool to the touch. I probably wouldn't do it with a campground connection or any electrical connection I didn't trust, but it worked fine for me in my situation.

Only did it one other time, at a camp ground, years ago. Ran both AC's and fridge.. 30 amp breaker tripped. Turned fridge to gas, and ran both AC's that evening fine.

Not something I would routinely want to do, but it can be made to work with a solid connection.

Mike
Im Mike Willoughby, and I approve this message.
2017 Ram 3500 CTD (aka FRAM)
2019 GrandDesign Reflection 367BHS

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
Conditions as I said two ACโ€™s are not a problem on 30A.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

myredracer
Explorer II
Explorer II
Cummins12V98 wrote:


The idea is to turn off all high draw items and the two AC's on 30A will be fine. Yes low voltage could be an issue! There are variables in all situations. The 30A plug should be of good quality and it's receptacle on the pedestal.
A 12.5K AC unit has a full load draw of 12.5 - 13.1 amps so 2 ACs is already at 25 - 26 amps. The converter is going to be drawing at least a few amps and you can't turn it off, so you're pretty close to or even at 30 amps. If you're running the fridge on electric, that's another 2.5 amps which will put you over 30 amps. Turn on any other loads, high draw or not and you are def. over 30 amps.

Don't forget that if the voltage drops much, the AC units are going to be drawing even more current.

I hate to repeat myself, but running two AC units simultaneously is asking for trouble.

myredracer
Explorer II
Explorer II
philh wrote:
why would pulling 30a on a circuit rated for 30a be a problem?
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. Technically and by code you should be able to draw 30 amps indefinitely. But the receptacles in pedestals, especially 30 amps, are often in poor shape with either loose contacts or dirty/corroded contacts or both. And many times, RV-ers don't look after their shore power cords and the plug blades can also be dirty/corroded. A sloppy connection and dirty contact surfaces creates enough resistance to cause overheating and a meltdown which is not uncommon. Lots of pics are on the 'net.

The problem with 30 amp receptacles and connectors (on cords) is that you can't see inside them and it isn't easy to clean the contact surfaces, esp. on twistlock connectors.

This youtube vid shows what can happen to the connector on a twistlock detachable cord when running 2 AC units.

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
myredracer wrote:
Drawing high amps (on 30 amp pedestal) for extended periods can result in an overheated plug to pedestal connection. There are even some that say you should never draw over 80% of 30 amps, 24 amps (which I disagree with). Two AC units (rated @ 12.5 FLA) is already at 25 amps and that's *if* the voltage is near or at 120 volts. Add in the converter draw, fridge on electric, TV and you're over 30 amps.

To size a "main" breaker by code calculation, if you have AC units rated at say 12.5 FLA and were drawing 5 amps from the converter and no other loads, you would require 12.5 amps + 5 amps + 20 amps (required breaker size for startup), you would need a breaker rated for min. 37.5 amps. You would then need to go to the next available size up, or 40 amps.

Doesn't matter *if* it seems like two AC units are working fine, it IS causing damage to the motor windings which degrades the insulation over time and shortens the life of AC units. The voltage at the AC terminals will be somewhat less too.


The idea is to turn off all high draw items and the two AC's on 30A will be fine. Yes low voltage could be an issue! There are variables in all situations. The 30A plug should be of good quality and it's receptacle on the pedestal.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
pianotuna wrote:
From your own figures 3 x 13 = 39 amps = not able to run all 3 on 30 amps.


Cummins12V98 wrote:


I how have 3 AC's and use them ALL. If I were to be at a 30A park I would do the same.

This is what my 15k AC draws once it starts pulling power.

There was already 1A draw on L1 before I turned on the AC.



Maybe my wording could have been better. I was NOT saying I could run 3 AC's on 30A. Two is a piece of cake.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

philh
Explorer II
Explorer II
why would pulling 30a on a circuit rated for 30a be a problem?

myredracer
Explorer II
Explorer II
Drawing high amps (on 30 amp pedestal) for extended periods can result in an overheated plug to pedestal connection. There are even some that say you should never draw over 80% of 30 amps, 24 amps (which I disagree with). Two AC units (rated @ 12.5 FLA) is already at 25 amps and that's *if* the voltage is near or at 120 volts. Add in the converter draw, fridge on electric, TV and you're over 30 amps.

To size a "main" breaker by code calculation, if you have AC units rated at say 12.5 FLA and were drawing 5 amps from the converter and no other loads, you would require 12.5 amps + 5 amps + 20 amps (required breaker size for startup), you would need a breaker rated for min. 37.5 amps. You would then need to go to the next available size up, or 40 amps.

Doesn't matter *if* it seems like two AC units are working fine, it IS causing damage to the motor windings which degrades the insulation over time and shortens the life of AC units. The voltage at the AC terminals will be somewhat less too.