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Switch to LIFePO4?

phemens
Explorer
Explorer
I have a trio of Rolls Surrette FS210 wet cell batteries that give me about 315 AH of usable capacity. My big concern is weight, the total is 400 lbs in my from compartment of the 5er, and I think that is too much, especially now that i’m changing my inverter out for a Samlex 3012 which weighs a ton (60lbs). Also have 1000w of solar.
I’m considering replacing them for LIFePO4 batteries, i’m thinking 4x100 AH, as an example the Battleborn units are about 30lbs each. One of my concerns is the limitation on charging and discharging below 0C. We don’t have those conditions often here in Canada, but it is a consideration.
Looking for some real-life feedback or advice.
2012 Dutchman Denali 324LBS behind a 2006 Ford F-250 V10 out of Montreal
1 DW, 1 DD, 1 DS, 2 HD (Hyper Dogs)
1200w solar, 600AH LIFePO4, Yamaha EF2000 gen, Samlex 3000w Inverter
127 REPLIES 127

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Hi Itinerant1,

In the manual they say 30 watts for "no load". So that's about 2.34 amps x 24 hours =~ 56 amp-hours.

It's good to know that "real life" is better!


Itinerant1 wrote:
Hello pianotuna,

I'm using the same inverter as you, Magnum 3012.
With nothing on except the inverter there will be a fluctuating 2a draw. I just figure that in to having the luxury home off the beaten trail.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Itinerant1
Explorer
Explorer
phemens wrote:
I saw that the fridge draws about 23 amps on electric, it would be tempting to switch over during the day when I can leverage the excess solar. Do you do anything special to set yourself a reminder to switch back? I sometimes forget and only notice when I check the battery monitor and wonder why there is so much draw with 'nothing' on!


Nothing special, I actually leave the fridge on on purpose and draw down to 90-95% SoC before switching over. With the amount of solar and the ease that lfp will accept a charge all the way to full or just use them in a PSoC.

Doing this I also extend the propane refill time. I'll average 17 days on a 30# with switching to electric it's extended to 23-25 days. 😉

Edit (better hot spot signal)
My displays are easily seen to read what's going on. The left display is the me-arc (Magnum) inverting @ 13.4 load 13a, right display is for the lithium batteries, pretty much self explanatory. System delivering 73a total at 12:30 today after the rainstorms.
12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.

Itinerant1
Explorer
Explorer
Hello pianotuna,

I'm using the same inverter as you, Magnum 3012.
With nothing on except the inverter there will be a fluctuating 2a draw. I just figure that in to having the luxury home off the beaten trail.
12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Hi Itinerant1,

That seems rather high for inverter "overhead". What inverter do you use?

Itinerant1 wrote:
I don't turn the inverter off, that by itself 48ah daily.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

phemens
Explorer
Explorer
I saw that the fridge draws about 23 amps on electric, it would be tempting to switch over during the day when I can leverage the excess solar. Do you do anything special to set yourself a reminder to switch back? I sometimes forget and only notice when I check the battery monitor and wonder why there is so much draw with 'nothing' on!
2012 Dutchman Denali 324LBS behind a 2006 Ford F-250 V10 out of Montreal
1 DW, 1 DD, 1 DS, 2 HD (Hyper Dogs)
1200w solar, 600AH LIFePO4, Yamaha EF2000 gen, Samlex 3000w Inverter

Itinerant1
Explorer
Explorer
30% SoC is only during the winter months (Late Dec, Jan, Feb) after a couple days of overcast/ rainy days. Our daily usage runs 150-200ah during the shorter day light days. I don't turn the inverter off, that by itself 48ah daily.

This time of year the solar system is producing 5-7kwh daily. I'll switch the Norcold over around 9am till 6pm. Between fridge, laptops, phones, booster, tv, dvd player, there could be 30-40a constant load and still be charging 35-45a. With those loads I'll be fully charged by 1pm. If I didn't turn the fridge over and run extra stuff by 10am I would be full.
12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.

phemens
Explorer
Explorer
Yes, I look forward to that, usually with the solar I am topped up before noon, so maybe I can leave the generator at home!
I’m surprised you get that low, down to 30% SOC. If you’re at 100% at sundown, what are you running to go that low? Our typical use in the evening is some TV (with media player), coffee maker and wife’s CPAP overnight, plus charging for phones, etc. On the wet cells we’d rarely get below 80% by morning. Mind you, in colder weather we usually run a Mr. Buddy instead of the RV furnace, but that’s mostly to cut down on the noise.
2012 Dutchman Denali 324LBS behind a 2006 Ford F-250 V10 out of Montreal
1 DW, 1 DD, 1 DS, 2 HD (Hyper Dogs)
1200w solar, 600AH LIFePO4, Yamaha EF2000 gen, Samlex 3000w Inverter

Itinerant1
Explorer
Explorer
From my experience charging using my eu2000i generator I'll set the incoming power on the Magnum 3012 to 15a and it will charge at 100a (.2c). I only run the generator for 2 hours just to give it hold over of 200ah (40%) boost and let solar do what it can. This is only when the batteries don't get to 60% SoC by 4-5pm with decent weather in the future. That gives plenty of power for the night usage and still make 12 cups of coffee and use the microwave for breakfast. When done be at 25-30% SoC.

If plugged in which hasn't been in 933 days as of today, I'll let the charger go at 125a (.25c). I figure I have 400+ full cycles on the batteries and do not see any ill effects yet. When the day comes and we come off the road I'll break the batteries down to see how much capacity has been lost.

You'll be spoiled when you implement the full use of the system and at all levels of SoC not worrying if you have enough power left in the batteries.;)
12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.

phemens
Explorer
Explorer
Itinerant1 wrote:
Phemens I forgot to ask are you charging at 80a (.2c) for any particular reason instead of 130a (.32c) that the charger can do on 120v?


No, I just set that initially as that was the recommendation of the battery mfg owner. I'm adding another 100AH so I'll bump it up.
2012 Dutchman Denali 324LBS behind a 2006 Ford F-250 V10 out of Montreal
1 DW, 1 DD, 1 DS, 2 HD (Hyper Dogs)
1200w solar, 600AH LIFePO4, Yamaha EF2000 gen, Samlex 3000w Inverter

Itinerant1
Explorer
Explorer
Phemens I forgot to ask are you charging at 80a (.2c) for any particular reason instead of 130a (.32c) that the charger can do on 120v?
12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.

Itinerant1
Explorer
Explorer
Looks good. Not familiar with Victron equipment maybe it needs a few cycles to learn? I didn't use that feature with Magnum remote, my bms/ cpu has a 7" display to view the system.
12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer


Just funnin wit'cha 🙂 Looks good


The price per foot is a stunner but SILICONE wire from eBAY can be bent a tight 90 degrees. And the claimed AWG is accurate.

phemens
Explorer
Explorer
Just as a quick update, all the batteries are installed and wired up properly. Took the opportunity to re-do a bit of the wire management to clean it up. Followed recommendations to use 8/2 for the 120V, glad I did even if it was a bit of a bear around corners. Still need to secure the wiring into the Samlex and add a few terminal caps.
Still fiddling with the settings on the Samlex for charging - yesterday the batteries showed as being down to 57% charge on the Victron battery monitor, but were still at around 90% according to the BMS panels on each battery. I get the sense that I won't be getting accurate readings from the Victron, not sure what to fiddle with. I recalibrated the Victron at 100% SOC, we'll see.
The Samlex will pump 80A as set to charge, it's set up as a 2-stage charge as per their recommendation, but it looks like the charger is still not fully charging the batteries. Will go and bump up the Absorbtion Voltage to 14.2 (initial setting was 14) and see. I did a test by running the microwave off a single battery (I know I shouldn't but could not resist the test and only ran it for a few seconds), dropped from 13.3 to 13.2 then back up - pretty impressive off a single 100A battery.
Net result is much better load handling, 270 lbs less weight and a much lighter pocket book, but I think it will be worth it in the long run.



2012 Dutchman Denali 324LBS behind a 2006 Ford F-250 V10 out of Montreal
1 DW, 1 DD, 1 DS, 2 HD (Hyper Dogs)
1200w solar, 600AH LIFePO4, Yamaha EF2000 gen, Samlex 3000w Inverter

RickLight
Explorer III
Explorer III
RCMAN46 wrote:
RickLIght wrote:
The single most efficient way to convert power to heat is an electric heater.


I take exception to this. Heat pumps will convert more electric energy to heat than an electric heater by a factor of 3-5 times.


You may be confusing heating a space with creating heat from electricity.

Electric heaters convert 100% of their power draw into heat. In fact most electrical appliances convert all their draw into heat. Some get other stuff done along the way, like moving other heat around. IE heat pumps and refrigerators.
Rick,

2019 Grand Design Reflection 150 273MK
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