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Going To Use 18 watt LED Spotlights To Illuminate Shoulder

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
I have had it up to my rear-end with the US DOT and how blinding new cars are with their blue high intensity discharge headlights.

Either the cars are leaving the factory with misaligned headlights or the lights themselves are designed by an idiot. Then there are models of new cars that have fog lamps that when oncoming look like 4 headlamps are on high beam.



Only 18 watts and 7" in length.
At 45' distance the hot spot is 13' in diameter
To be aimed at the curb or shoulder.

On my power supply at 13.5 volts, these are 13 watt lamps. Pure white light. No mercury vapor or Wal-Mart parking lot color tones.

They will be mounted below my headlights in elliptical nose openings.

The mounting will have to be reinforced to eliminate shake on rough roads.

CREE lamps same brightness 9-30 volts.

Now we get into trig

Aimed 30 degrees downward and perhaps 30 degrees to starboard can anyone think of a reason how the merged hotspots can reflect (like from a puddle) into the eyes of an oncoming driver? I cannot imagine triangulation that would offend a driver in a lane to the right of me.

A person crawling on the ground might get an unintended flare. The bracework is going to cost a pretty penny and if there is a fly in the ointment I'd rather save the money.

Mexico sometimes has shoulder delineation with paint stripe or reflectors, but it's in the minority.
16 REPLIES 16

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
I was torn between not asking and then presenting how I did it legally and intelligently. By posing relevant questions and then attempting to show how and why to answer questions about my decisions.

It seems like too many folks think "Rip open the package and slap these suckers on". This presents a danger to everyone. In fog, the closer and more parallel a beam is to your eyesight, the greater the reflectivity of fog particles. Same for heavy rain and snow.

The effect of a bright pinpoint emitter that Mr LY raised is an excellent one. Older sealed beams had a supported cap in front of the filaments to reduce pinpoint glare.

Safety 1st.

landyacht318
Explorer
Explorer
Mex, my comments are mostly intended to futily keep other readers, from willy nilly plastering the front of their vehicle in LED spotlights, since there is apparently litle to no enforcement of existing vehicle lighting laws, and the car manufacturers do not even seem to be compliant in the glare department on many newer vehicles.

The horrid light output pattern of the so called 'fog' lights provided with many vehicles today is a sad testament to just how badly understood proper vehicle forward lighting is. The use of these 'foglights' by almost every driver whose vehicle came so equipped, shows just how ignorant the general public is regarding forward lighting. Anytime you see someone with 'fog lights' on at highway speeds, feel free to think 'what an ignorant idiot!' and then feel sad for humanity and this poor planet, as 85% of vehicles will have them on.
Even if these so called 'foglights' had a proper beam pattern, at highway speeds the excessive foreground lighting reduces the ability
of the human eyeball to see at the fringes of the low beam's reach, thus making for even poorer ability to see properly.

I too wish to see better off to the sides at low speeds. I used to have a pair of 'fog' beams which at least tried to have a narrow flat wide beam, and they were OK for seeing pedestrians on sidewalks at slow speeds with my low beams off, or not blinding pedestrians in parking lots with low beams, but when I swapped 12awg for the provided 18awg, they melted the reflector material and blistered the paint on the outside and eventually shorted out the wiring. These were bought years before mainly for their size and on price, back before I knew better.

For grins I bought some inexpensive h3 LED bulbs for their guts, and the result was similar to someone aiming a spotlight at a disco ball from the 70's. I could not even use them in the workshop, inside the housings anyway, I use the H3 led bulbs in a simple hooded shroud. I doubt their output is anywhere near a halogen 55w h3 bulb.

I still want low speed lighting for illuminating the sides and down at low speeds, but I will be saving for an actual quality fog beam or auxiliary low beam, not just use inexpensive LED spotlights.

If I were rolling in disposable income, I would get some JWspeaker LED headlamps to replace my sealed beams, and probably would not need any additional forward lighting, as these are very well engineered headlamps.

Next on the list, so as to be able to take advantage of my upgraded wiring harness, would be Cibie housings and Phillips extreme h4 bulbs. Another step below that would be the Hella 6054 sealed beam replacements with the same bulbs, though these are said to have issues with the high beam being too high when the low beam is aimed properly.

As for my Taillights, I spent near 25$ for some 1157 LED's that used many radially firing 5730 chips and 2 behind a projector lens firing into the red plastic lens. They were brighter from all possible viewing angles, deeper red, had that instant on, and a fraction of the amp draw, and proper difference between signal and running filament brightness. They only lasted about 14 months before one blew out and the other started flickering, and I have gone back to incandescent. Wish I had that 25$ back. Waste of time and money.

I also have some side marker red leds t-10/194. On a recent walk around I found one to have many of the leds on the bulb die and the others flickering and way too dim. Back in went the 194 Incandescents. Oh well, at least those were inexpensive.

I once had my brake light switch not adjusted properly, after a brake booster replacement. I kept wondering why the transmission was dropping out of lockup on the highway, and quickly reengaging. The mildest bump was triggering the brake lights unbenownst to me, which was dropping the TX out of lockup, and this might have contributed to getting pulled over in Mississippi.

So much that we do in hopes of improving things has negative consequences that we simply refuse to believe. Doing so would make us question our intelligence.
Can't have that.

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
Lol! I have done the same thing in desperate hopes that I catch their eye with their own glare. But I have often wondered if some type of mirroring system might be in order in the rear of a vehicle?"


I remember a law being enacted in California making unlawful mirror like box trailer doors and tanker ends.

My car's brake lights are adjusted so the lights trigger with no braking.

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
  • I have a nice white cinder brick wall I use for lighting including 120 volt flood
  • I compare their intensity to my car's low beams
  • The 18 watt CREE spotlight has an elliptical pattern not round
  • And the elliptical pattern does not have a gradual taper. The fringe decay is within 18" at 30'
  • Play outside the fringe decay over top the headlights on low beam and there is not a detectable rise in illumination
  • Three friends agree. Scatter is inconsequential
  • All this would be for naught if the CREE were aimed higher and straighter
  • I want an ellipse at 30'
  • Remember the stainless steel Per-Lux lights with the defector shutters? With the downward and to the side severe angles the CREE lamp's spot is brighter where aimed but much dimmer outside the hot spot
  • The Per-Lux were a ***** to oncoming cars with wet pavement
  • The CREE will be aimed at the shoulder


I do appreciate your comments ๐Ÿ™‚

Offer The New Breed of Cop mordida and there will be 2.000 pesos tacked into the fines for the light bar.

I promise the first time the CREE's get flashed down, off they come.

steved28
Explorer
Explorer
landyacht318 wrote:
I was opening my window and aiming my side mirror to try and reflect their disgusting lights back into their eyes, as foolish as that is.



Lol! I have done the same thing in desperate hopes that I catch their eye with their own glare. But I have often wondered if some type of mirroring system might be in order in the rear of a vehicle?
2019 Winnebago Sunstar LX 35F
2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ Sahara

landyacht318
Explorer
Explorer
The thing about a real headlamp beam, is it is not allowed to have much stray light going upwards. There is supposed to be a sort of cutoff with minimal lighting up and to the right for the illumination of street signs.

A true fog beam is supposed to be wide and flat with even less upwards stray light, preferably Zero. None of the fashion accessories sold on vehicles today in a fog beam position, have anything near a compliant foglight beam light output pattern. Driving with these lights on, especially at highway speeds, is Just advertising ones ignorance and foolishness, and there is NO lack of this evident on every 40mph+ road each and every night.

The Dainel stern website has a good writeup of why fog lights are best left off and even the best fog lights are not that effective in actually allowing the human eyeball to see the road any better, and those that are effectve are only effective under 25mph.

Here are some more good reads, for those interested in vehicular lighting, by an actual expert who the masses inclined to performing lighting modifications, prefer to ignore:

https://drivingintherealworld.com/part-1-lighting-the-way-with-guest-daniel-stern/

https://drivingintherealworld.com/part-2-lighting-the-way-with-daniel-stern/


The 18 watt LEds in question, have spot beams yes, each individual beam would have a relatively focused round spot of light, equally bright on the top of the circle, as below. Hopefully all 6 cone shaped reflectors are focusing their LED in the same spot, but small variances in the LEDs position on the circuit board make this, wishful thinking.

There is no ability of the cone shaped reflector, like in a projector or a stock halogen headlamp reflector, to widen and flatten the beam to reduce upwards stray light, they are just a spot beam.

Now with that spot aimed down and to the right do anything, Yes, of course for the driver behind them going slower and watching the sides of the road, but a large percentage of that spotbeam light is still going to go into the drivers eyes of oncoming cars, even outside that spot beam. A blinding bluish white point of light that destroys their ability to see. Is it as bad as if the spot beam was aimed in the oncoming drivers face? of course not, but it is still bad. Way worse than headlights which actually meet FMVSS 108

Enough to have some federale or local cop not sniff out some mordita? I wish the cops would pull over those with excessively glaring obviously modified headlamps, but there is a lot of new cars today with horrid glare from the factory, especially when they have their 'fashionfogs' turned on too.

Its hard to beat the output of these 18 watt LEDs, the price and the mounting options make it hard to not want to plaster them everywhere. I see Jeeps with 4 and 5 pair of these lights all over the place, perhaps in addition to light bars.

I have a set shaped more cube like, triggered to come on only with my High beams. Those and my sealed beams getting 14.4v at the H4 connector are downright impressive, when I can actually use them safely.

A few months ago on a road trip, I suffered a low beam failure on the passenger side, well outside any metro area and well past the time any autopart store would still be open and needed some 3 more hours of driving before stopping for the night. I retasked one of these LED spot Beams to low beam duty, and Aimed it down and to the right, compared to the high beam aim, and I was getting flashed on a divided highway enough, that I aimed it farther down in a rest area, and was still getting flashed. The wall of the hotel we finally pulled into, had the LED spot beam hotspot aiming way lower than the still operable drivers side halogen low beam, but the white LED glow was lighting up the wall way up higher than the halogen sealed beam to the point of obnoxiousness, and it was no wonder I was getting flashed.

For grins, I took out the large road atlas and held it just over the top of the light, to block upwards light and was able to mimic the sealed beam light pattern on the hotel wall with minimal upwards straying light.

Spot beams are Not adequate fog lamps, they are not adequate auxiliary low beams, They are pretty effective as high beam assists, and for that duty, I'd actually prefer a pair of 36 watt lights, precisely aimed. To fill the weaker spots in the halogen high beam.

The amount of people I saw with ridiculous Lighting on I-10 driving back across country two months ago was infuriating. Whether on the other side of the road, or on the road behind me, frying my mirrors with aftermarket LED bulbs in halogen reflectors on the giant Bro trucks. I was opening my window and aiming my side mirror to try and reflect their disgusting lights back into their eyes, as foolish as that is. When they'd pass me their beam pattern had no more light on the road than my own lights, they were just lighting up that, and the canyon wall and trees and the airplanes, blissful in their arrogant ignorant self importance.

It Pegs my Misanthropy needle deep in the red.

Mex, an actual Auxiliary low beam headlight, or an actual quality fog beam of which there are very few, aimed somewhat off to the side would be a million times better in what you can see, and in the glare to other drivers department, however none of these items these are 34$ for a pair. So asking if inexpensive spot beams, in this application, will be just fine in the glare department to oncoming drivers, if aimed own and to the right, is you insulting your own intelligence.

Now if they are ging to be on a nice easy to reach switch and used only when there are no other cars on the road, well they will certainly be effective in allowing you to see better, but leaving them on with oncoming traffic, is going to make for irritated oncoming traffic, even aimed down and to the right.

Chum_lee
Explorer
Explorer
A bit dated, but, good info on lighting:

https://www.danielsternlighting.com/

No affiliation.

Chum lee

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
I believe LY there is a limit to the pinpoint issue. Thirty degrees down and thirty degrees to starboard renders far less light to oncoming drivers eyeballs than a single always-on fog light of new cars.

6 3-watt emitters. with diffusion rings in the reflector. The difference at intended angles of use is even radically dimmer to my ancient eyeballs. But unadjusted light hotspot direct to the oncoming car's driver's eyes is far too intense. They have to be directed radically to the side and down.

You can verify the above yourself if you wish.

Given there is some variance in degree of intelligence in humans, other intelligent humans will take this in consideration before tossing everyone into the same bowl ๐Ÿ™‚

Being I could care less about distance, I could care less about seeing the eyeballs of jack rabbits at 6000 yards.

I do not drive at night. I do return home after sundown especially after dinner.

The cops down here confiscate light bars AND issue thousand peso tickets for high wattage indiscriminate lighting. Confiscate means forever.

Almot
Explorer III
Explorer III
People don't drive in Mexico in the night unless they absolutely have to. Or - when they are drunk. Potholes, crumbled or missing shoulders, cows on the road.
Good news is that many cars there are ancient, with incandescent bulbs. New cars with bright LED are terrible when oncoming, yes.

landyacht318
Explorer
Explorer
Projectors are more glaring to oncoming drivers because the same amount of light has to exit a much smaller aperture, even if properly aimed away from oncoming traffic.

The blue light is difficult for human eyes. Cct temps over 4500 might make people think oooh white light is more bright and helps one to.see better. they are wrong.

Even if aimed down and to the right the actual face of the light is a pinpoint light source brighter than a larger diffused headlamp.

People are.going to do whatever the f they want in this regard as there is no enforcement of existing laws regarding glare. And a heaping overload of ignorant arrogant self importance on display by the vast majority.

Acampingwewillg
Explorer
Explorer
Yep...nothing wrong with a bit more light in darkness to help brighten things up a bit. I added a couple of extra "white" lights to the front of my older MH....helps quite a bit on those very dark roads. On that same subject, and I probably shouldn't mention this, but I love to turn on the roof Spot/Flood Roof light....(yes, I'm careful to turn it off at first sight of on coming traffic) BUT..WOW what a difference it makes in seeing on those dark desert highways with the cool wind in my hair!! ๐Ÿ™‚
96 Vogue Prima Vista
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wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
First aiming headlights at the factory. though I believe it is done. may not be all that effective as when you start to load up the car the angle of the dangle changes. For example you put your grossly overweight relative in the back seat the lights now aim a tad higher. You put your portable recording studio in the trunk (yes I actually have one of those) the lights aim a bit higher.

18 Watts of High efficiency LED's is a LOT of light. 3 watts as I recall is what my 1200 lumen flashlight eats. and that's about the same as a 100 watt incandescent lamp.

Oh that I use 18 watt "fog" lights
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
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Crabbypatty
Explorer
Explorer
The new lights bother me as well. People also do not turn off their high beams, even after multiple flashes at them. Its a problem for sure.
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MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
It is absolutely my old eyes. But younger passengers complain too. Being the LEDS are complete bulbs and housings they should not get trashed because of reflector misalignment.
I just need to stay on the road at 35 mph.