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Topic: Freon capacity

Posted By: ggoguen on 01/13/19 07:57am

I have a 2013 Thor Daybreak, on a Ford F53 chassis.I just finished putting in the chassis condenser, I added 4 cans of Freon, 48oz, my pressures are at 20psi low and, 170 high, 70 deg ambient temp. It's blowing cold air inside, but, the pressure readings show that the system is low on Freon. I just can't believe I need to add more? I found a sticker with Freon capacity, but it is smudged, and unreadable. Does anyone know how much Freon this system holds?


Posted By: MountainAir05 on 01/13/19 09:34am

Did you pull a vacuum and add the required pag oil for the part that you replaced. I think you over filled it but with out further info can't say.

http://www.evanstempcon.com/tsg_RefrigerantChargeGuide.php


Posted By: rgatijnet1 on 01/13/19 09:43am

Since there are a lot of variables, just monitor the temp or the pressure and look for a change. As soon as the duct temp starts to rise, stop adding freon.


Posted By: ggoguen on 01/13/19 09:54am

I did add 3oz of pag oil, then I did pull a vacuum for about an hour. It is blowing cold air, and I can see the sight glass, with a mirror, I can't tell if I'm still seeing bubble, or if it's the dye in the oil.


Posted By: rgatijnet1 on 01/13/19 10:22am

If you are looking for all of the bubbles to disappear in the sight glass, that does not happen with R-134a.


Posted By: dougrainer on 01/13/19 10:40am

1. 134a NOT Freon[emoticon]
2. 134a will still bubble in the sight glass.
3. Unless you had a catastrophic loss of coolant, if you just had a slow leak, then you NEVER add Oil at all. The ONLY correct way to add oil is to pull the compressor, drain it and add the correct amount of oil per the compressor. Adding oil when not required will add too much oil to the system and degrade the cooling capacity.
4. The Charge for a Ford Class A chassis is dependent on the complete system. The range is 2.25 oz to 2.75 MAX oz. Doug

PS, you added 1 can too many---TOO MUCH 134a will not cool as the correct amount. There is a curve----Once the 134a reaches its correct amount, adding too much starts a lack of cooling and the output temp starts to raise.


Posted By: ggoguen on 01/13/19 11:34am

Yes I used 134a, and it was leaking Freon, and oil at the bottom corner of the condenser.


Posted By: 2oldman on 01/13/19 11:55am

ggoguen wrote:

Yes I used 134a, and it was leaking Freon, and oil at the bottom corner of the condenser.
Using 134 and leaking Freon? Sounds odd.


Posted By: 185EZ on 01/13/19 03:28pm

Like someone else said, too many variables
What's your outside temp?
You're in FL.
How long was the system open?
Did you replace the drier?
Too much oil
Too much 134a


Posted By: dougrainer on 01/13/19 04:24pm

185EZ wrote:

Like someone else said, too many variables
What's your outside temp?
You're in FL.
How long was the system open?
Did you replace the drier?
Too much oil
Too much 134a


Bingo, I did not catch the fact that he did not state he replaced the drier. You ALWAYS replace the Drier in this type repair. Doug


Posted By: wa8yxm on 01/13/19 05:07pm

dougrainer wrote:

1. 134a NOT Freon[emoticon]o much starts a lack of cooling and the output temp starts to raise.


Doug... You beat me to it.. Thanks.


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Posted By: wvabeer on 01/15/19 09:55am

I would think 3 lbs might be too much. If its cooling leave it alone. Wait and see how it does on a hot day. Look at other trucks like yours and see the refrigerant capacity


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Posted By: RLS7201 on 01/15/19 12:53pm

With that amount of charge and those pressures, you probably have a restriction at the expansion valve. Assuming you have the system on outside air and high speed blow. A restriction between the receiver/dryer and the compressor will cause low pressure, as all the refrigerant will be stored in the condenser and dryer, leaving the compressor nothing to pump. Most likely you will find the expansion valve screen restricted. Refrigeration 1 oh 1.
And while I'm on a roll, I would like to expand on what Doug said about "Freon". "Freon" was a DuPont trade mark and defines no chemical. Using Freon to define any refrigerant only shows lack of training and knowledge in the refrigeration world.


Richard

* This post was edited 01/15/19 01:29pm by RLS7201 *


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Posted By: chuckftboy on 01/15/19 04:56pm

Freon was Dupont's trade name for R-22 refrigerant. Much Puron is Carrier's trade name for R410A refrigerant. A lot of people refer to all refrigerants as Freon much like people calling all tissues, Kleenex. Its actually all refrigerant even R134A.


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Posted By: dougrainer on 01/16/19 06:10am

chuckftboy wrote:

Freon was Dupont's trade name for R-22 refrigerant. Much Puron is Carrier's trade name for R410A refrigerant. A lot of people refer to all refrigerants as Freon much like people calling all tissues, Kleenex. Its actually all refrigerant even R134A.


True. Funny thing is, NOBODY refers to any Motorhome anymore as "WINNEBAGO'S". Good news is, you CANNOT install Freon 12 in a 134a system, even if you could still find Freon 12. Reverse is true. They have totally different hose connections. Doug


Posted By: crawford on 01/28/19 04:10pm

really you would be lucky to find 12 and if so maybe a 16 oz coast maybe 260 dollars it would be a costly change over ever if it could be done which it could not'


Change from a c class to a A class Georgetown 07 triple slide


Posted By: JimD10796 on 01/29/19 08:56am

At 70 ambient, pressure should be low side 35-40 and high side 145-160psi. IMO possible blockage in expansion/orfice, which should be replaced as well as the drier anytime the system is open.


Posted By: GTO66 on 01/29/19 09:51am

R-12 price has seemed to drop as less vehicles are around that use it. The last two cans I bought I got for $15. each compared to 30. or higher a few years back. R-22 is still up there in price, but that to should fall as more home units are replaced.


Posted By: crawford on 01/29/19 04:16pm

R 12 can not be gotten with out a license It has not be product in 15 years you must be buying R-134a refrigerant. No car or truck since 92 had R12 I believe.


Posted By: RLS7201 on 01/29/19 05:40pm

crawford wrote:

R 12 can not be gotten with out a license It has not be product in 15 years you must be buying R-134a refrigerant. No car or truck since 92 had R12 I believe.


Ebay & Amazon sell R12 to the general public all the Time.

">lAAAOSwOWdcNWJ2[emoticon]k:9[emoticon]f:0]R12


Posted By: crawford on 01/29/19 06:28pm

to 10 minute call for repair assistance with a certified technician - $14.95 to certified tec you need a License. Not to anyone you must read all and understand what you read


Posted By: GTO66 on 01/31/19 08:26pm

I as well as my old car buds have a supply of R-12 and you can still find it at many swap meets. It's R-22 that has really increased in price.


Posted By: crawford on 02/01/19 08:58am

I have License R12 is not being made in is country maybe somewhere else and gotting in illegal. That say do you really want to chance garbage with out safety what you should really do is get a retro kit and change it to 134 A. As far as 22 that too will be phased out in 2 to 4 years. I would never risk my my License first you need to use a recover tank to collect and service unit not many will do a separate tank for R12 this drives cost up.


Posted By: GTO66 on 02/01/19 09:22am

I have changed to 134a. The cooling is not as good in a system made for R-12. As of today only one of my cars use R-12 but you never know when I'll get another, so I'll keep my supply of real R-12 and continue to buy when the price is right. R-22 will be phased out and that's why I also have 30lbs of that also.


Posted By: olfarmer on 02/03/19 06:03pm

He has a 2013 MH I am sure it takes R134A refrigerant. Not sure why this thread got off onto R12 AND I am guilty of calling all refrigerant "Freon" kind of like calling all tissue Kleenex! I know better but that is a habit![emoticon]


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Posted By: Matt_Colie on 02/04/19 07:58am

Unfortunately, many of you have missed a big trick. If you have old hardware that was R-12, look at finding some HC-12 to replace it. This is a hydrocarbon refrigerant that is a mix of propane and isobutane and much purer than general LP. It is compatible with everything so no oil or seal changes are required, and it is a better refrigerant - thermodynamicly than is R-134A.

OK, so it is a flammable gas, all 3# (generous) of it, just like the 80# of propane you have in that tank or the 700# of fuel in those tanks. But better than 134 (which is also flammable) as the combustion by- products are not as highly toxic.

Lots of different agencies say it is not approved or (rarely) not legal, but that means that those people have to catch you at doing something harmless.

Of course the EPA has come out against it. This is probably because it can't be patented because propane was used as a refrigerant before the halogenated hydrocarbons came on the seen.

Matt


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Posted By: wvabeer on 02/04/19 02:49pm

People give you down the road for calling refrigerant Freon but yanno, they knew what you were talking about. I use the term often when I repair someones AC. I know thats what term they use.


Posted By: JusBud on 02/05/19 05:54am

Did you figure out the problem?


Posted By: dougrainer on 02/05/19 07:39am

Matt_Colie wrote:

Unfortunately, many of you have missed a big trick. If you have old hardware that was R-12, look at finding some HC-12 to replace it. This is a hydrocarbon refrigerant that is a mix of propane and isobutane and much purer than general LP. It is compatible with everything so no oil or seal changes are required, and it is a better refrigerant - thermodynamicly than is R-134A.

OK, so it is a flammable gas, all 3# (generous) of it, just like the 80# of propane you have in that tank or the 700# of fuel in those tanks. But better than 134 (which is also flammable) as the combustion by- products are not as highly toxic.

Lots of different agencies say it is not approved or (rarely) not legal, but that means that those people have to catch you at doing something harmless.

Of course the EPA has come out against it. This is probably because it can't be patented because propane was used as a refrigerant before the halogenated hydrocarbons came on the seen.

Matt


READ THIS LINK. Only a FOOL would use this type Auto refrigerant.Doug
Especially about a front end accident that pierces the condensor

https://www.aa1car.com/library/flammable_refrigerants.htm


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