Thoughts on manufacturers

[bobbyg123]

Since I'm in the market for a used Class C, out of necessity, I'm open to a variety of different manufacturers. Without wanting this to turn into a brand loyalty debate, what can you guys tell me about the different Class C makers?

I'm in the market for a 25-31' camper, and the makes I'm consistently running into here in the Pacific NW are Thor, Sunseeker, Minnie Winnie, Tioga, and Jayco.

Any input on these would be helpful.

[pnichols]

camperdave wrote:

Jq1953 wrote:
Thanks for the advice about the running lights. I am sure these were resealed with the seams. Winnebago did offer to look at my coach, a couple of years ago, if I returned it to the factory, but that's not feasible due to medical concerns of a family member. It ironic that we purchased a Winnie based on recommendations of several campers we asked. I guess I just drew the short straw this time.

Find a local outfit with a whole RV pressure type leak tester. Unfortunately, after a few years of water in there, I'd be worried about rot, even when the leak is found and sealed.

Of course depending upon exactly where the water wound up long term ... but inside the walls of Winnebago Class C motorhomes of at least the model years back to the year of ours (2005) ... there's not a lot to "rot" in the wall areas (mostly aluminum, rigid foam, and fiberglass).

Probably the biggest concern could be permanent mold inside the walls - which even then many folks may not be allergic to, or otherwise care about.

We had mold inside the coach area of an old Class C we used to own and just cleaned up all of it we could see (a diluted Clorox spray is good) on surfaces and then kept right on using it for family vacations after we had cleaned it up. We learned from that experience to keep the roof vents open all the way (if they're under vent covers, of course) ... and keep a small electric heater running inside set to around 50 degrees during the wet and cold months.

[camperdave]

Jq1953 wrote:
Thanks for the advice about the running lights. I am sure these were resealed with the seams. Winnebago did offer to look at my coach, a couple of years ago, if I returned it to the factory, but that's not feasible due to medical concerns of a family member. It ironic that we purchased a Winnie based on recommendations of several campers we asked. I guess I just drew the short straw this time.

Find a local outfit with a whole RV pressure type leak tester. Unfortunately, after a few years of water in there, I'd be worried about rot, even when the leak is found and sealed.

[ron_dittmer]

Jq1953 wrote:
It is ironic that we purchased a Winnie based on recommendations of several campers we asked. I guess I just drew the short straw this time.

I praise our rig the Phoenix Cruiser, but as you experiences with Winnebago, a bad apple surfaces now and then. It is unfortunate for you, left dealing with a problem with no resolution. I wonder if the "Lemon Law" might apply in your case, but it has been 5 years since you bought your rig new.

[Jq1953]

Thanks for the advice about the running lights. I am sure these were resealed with the seams. Winnebago did offer to look at my coach, a couple of years ago, if I returned it to the factory, but that's not feasible due to medical concerns of a family member. It ironic that we purchased a Winnie based on recommendations of several campers we asked. I guess I just drew the short straw this time.

[pnichols]

Jq1953 wrote:
I purchased a 2014 Minnie Winnie in June 2013. I have had several issues, some normal, some not normal. I spent the first year talking to Winnebago and taking it to two different Camping World dealers. My problems still existed after these visits. I got only promises from the factory and the dealers.
When the warranty expired I took it a local dealer and paid for several repairs. But I have never resolved a rook leak over the drivers side.
In June of 2018 I took my coach to Camping World in Garner, NC. I spent 2300.00 to have the seams removed and resealed. Still a leak. After two returns I have decided to return it again. I after this visit I'm going to trade. But not for another Winnebago. I don't know what's better. I will just roll the dice again.

I wonder if that leak over the driver's side wasn't from one or more of the five running lights across the front? I believe and will bet that these are rarely suspected or checked concerning "leaking roofs".

I just could not wrap my head around five forward facing lights with their wires penetrating into the wall interior not eventually beginning to leak when driving down the road at speed in a pouring rainstorm ... so many years ago ago I took action to make sure that they would never leak into our Class C's overhead cab area.

Leaking running lights are a no-no in an RV - which is a completely different situation from them eventually just dripping straight down into the vertical walls of big rigs and other commercial vehicles where no one cares or notices. Even in private vehicles such as pickup trucks, these running lights are at least mounted onto solid metal surfaces - as opposed to the flexible and softer non-metal outer walls of RVs.

[ron_dittmer]

Jq1953 wrote:
I purchased a 2014 Minnie Winnie in June 2013. I have had several issues, some normal, some not normal. I spent the first year talking to Winnebago and taking it to two different Camping World dealers. My problems still existed after these visits. I got only promises from the factory and the dealers.
When the warranty expired I took it a local dealer and paid for several repairs. But I have never resolved a rook leak over the drivers side.
In June of 2018 I took my coach to Camping World in Garner, NC. I spent 2300.00 to have the seams removed and resealed. Still a leak. After two returns I have decided to return it again. I after this visit I'm going to trade. But not for another Winnebago. I don't know what's better. I will just roll the dice again.

That very persistent water leak would be a very tough pill to swallow. Shame on Winnebago not resolving it for you, and very unfortunately nobody else either.

Have they sealed around the top amber-colored and side red-colored marker lights? Water often makes a way through them.

In out first motor home with a seamless fiberglass body, water was getting in through the marker lights. One marker light at a time, I removed it, silicone-caulked the hole where the wires come out and also where the screws go in, then quickly re-mounted it before the sealant cured. That cured water coming in forever.

We replaced that motor home 11.5 years ago with a new 2007 Phoenix Cruiser. The manufacture clear-caulked around each side marker light after the full body paint job was done, and they have never leaked.

[Jq1953]

I purchased a 2014 Minnie Winnie in June 2013. I have had several issues, some normal, some not normal. I spent the first year talking to Winnebago and taking it to two different Camping World dealers. My problems still existed after these visits. I got only promises from the factory and the dealers.
When the warranty expired I took it a local dealer and paid for several repairs. But I have never resolved a rook leak over the drivers side.
In June of 2018 I took my coach to Camping World in Garner, NC. I spent 2300.00 to have the seams removed and resealed. Still a leak. After two returns I have decided to return it again. I after this visit I'm going to trade. But not for another Winnebago. I don't know what's better. I will just roll the dice again.

[Bordercollie]

We have bought a 2004 Fleetwood Tioga Model 26Q new in 2003, model was discontinued a few years ago.It has a huge rear cargo bay with mounted spare wheel/tire inside, a rear bedroom with RV Queen bed and a typical convertible dinette, captain's chair and over head bed in front. Fleetwood Tioga and Jamboree models are nearly identical. There are no slides, we don't want them. Bed has access on right side and foot only, not great climbing over bed partner in the dark. Slightly longer rigs have better bed ingress/egress or have a bedroom slide. This size fits our driveway and is adequate for us two and our two small dogs. Shorter rigs have less cabinet storage and sleeping is usually on convertible sofas or dinettes or in the overhead bed (not for arthritic older RV'ers or people with sleeping problems). Most Class C's use the same brands and models of appliances, roof AC units, house battery converter/chargers and awnings. I recommend buying 3 or 4 year old rigs. Major appliance replacements may be needed after 10 years, RV tires go bad with age, may need to be replaced when 5 or 6 years old. Ford E-450 V-10 engines/drive trains are quite durable and may have many years of trouble free service when they have 70K miles on the odometer. As others have said, condition may be more important than brand names. The "best" may cost considerably more than the volume sellers used by rental companies. Check RV rental company refurbished model sales. Don't buy an extended warranty without carefully reading through the policy for loopholes and exclusions.

[pnichols]

ron.dittmer wrote:

camperdave wrote:
I ruled out Jayco and Bigfoot because they all have basement storage. Which is nice in some ways, but it raises the house relative to the drivers cabin which I do not care for. I didn't like that you couldn't see out the front window from the couch or dinette.

I know what you mean. But for me it was all about the over-all height of the rig including the a/c unit. Our rig clears our 9'-11.25" tall garage door opening by 1.5". Our house floor is only 1.5" higher than our Ford cab floor, and our interior ceiling height is less than most other makers. I think the company Phoenix USA had originally marketed their products many years ago as a big class "B". They are officially class "Cs" but scaled down significantly compared to most others.

We didn't know anything about a basement design versus non-basement design back when we bought our Class C and we didn't have any height issues for storage as we store it outside under a large oak tree to keep it out of the sun.

Our coach height to the top of the A/C is 11'3", which even at that height is way lower than many 5th wheel and Class A rigs. Within that 11'3" overall height we also have good ground clearance all around including all of the coach structure with no support system components hanging lower than the coach walls. The under-loaded E450 springs also prevent any front-to-rear coach sag.

We don't like the ~4" step up from cab floor to coach floor, but this is low priority for us in light of the tremendous amount of equipment that we can store in the seven outside storage cabinets .... such as a full size shovel, a beach umbrella, fishing poles, a full size propane outdoor fire pit, spare 5 gallon and 2 gallon propane tanks, a portable generator plus a gas can for it, a BBQ plus gas canisters for it, a man-sized large outdoor lounge chair, two folding lawn chairs, many tools, five wood leveling steps plus extra boards, all sewer tubes plus extra valves, a 12 ton high-lift hydraulic jack, 100' feet of fresh water hose plus spare fittings, and the stock 30' electric hookup cable plus a 50' extension for it. The spare tire is stored separately up in between the frame rails right behind the rear fuel tank.

This kind of storage capacity is priceless in a 24 foot Class C. We don't need a view forward from the coach when traveling and we park sideways to the view when camped. We sometimes wish we could retrofit a swiveling front passenger seat (but can't because of the floor height differences) ... but this would be very rarely used anyway.

Small but mighty is what we wanted in a non-slide double queen bed Class C and so far it has delivered. That's tough to find and we're glad we're not shopping today for that combination.

[ron_dittmer]

camperdave wrote:
I ruled out Jayco and Bigfoot because they all have basement storage. Which is nice in some ways, but it raises the house relative to the drivers cabin which I do not care for. I didn't like that you couldn't see out the front window from the couch or dinette.

I know what you mean. But for me it was all about the over-all height of the rig including the a/c unit. Our rig clears our 9'-11.25" tall garage door opening by 1.5". Our house floor is only 1.5" higher than our Ford cab floor, and our interior ceiling height is less than most other makers. I think the company Phoenix USA had originally marketed their products many years ago as a big class "B". They are officially class "Cs" but scaled down significantly compared to most others.

[camperdave]

My rig is far from perfect. Just another mass produced Fleetwood.

But I will say I looked at a lot of used motorhomes this summer, and it truly comes down to condition. A nice Fleetwood is better than a beat Winnebago.

I focused on particulars (once beyond basics like size and floorplan). I like that my fresh water tank is under a dinette up front instead of under the rear bed (for weight balance), and I like that it's got a relatively large 37 gallon grey tank (relative to other Class C's, it's still smaller than the 40 gallons my old trailer had). It has a 30' length with a 198" wheelbase putting it nicely in the good side of the wheelbase/length ratio.

I ruled out Coachmen, because literally every one I saw (I was looking at 10+ year old rigs) had delamination. Every one. I ruled out Jayco and Bigfoot because they all have basement storage. Which is nice in some ways, but it raises the house relative to the drivers cabin which I do not care for. I didn't like that you couldn't see out the front window from the couch or dinette.

The Winnie's I saw were nice, I appreciate the fiberglass roof and aluminum wheels, but those were not deal maker/breakers. I did find one Winnie I almost bought, but it had slides (which I don't really want) and was a bit more $$ than I was looking to spend.

[ron_dittmer]

BFL13 wrote:

ron.dittmer wrote:
I agree in that 25 feet is a good cut-off between a Ford E350 and an E450 chassis, a Chevy 3500 and a 4500.

An E350 chassis at 24-11" would be fine as long as the frame was stretched increasing the 158" wheel base to notably more. This would better distribute the weight between front and rear axles, properly utilizing the extra load capability of the front axle.

Most short rigs have too much weight on the rear axle, and too little weight on the front axle causing "rear end sag". The condition also negatively affects handling. Our 11 year old E350 rig is 23'-8" long with a Ford standard 158" wheel base suffers from it. I had to invest in suspension upgrades to get the handling just right. Our rear end sag is very slight, a non-issue.

I don't know much about other Class Cs or Fords, but am curious about the above figures.

The 1991 E350 dually we got last year (see pic in profile) has a wheel base of 176 inches and has 140 inch overhang behind that, the way I measured it. (front to rear axles) That is 26.3 feet and brochure says the Rv is 28.5 overall, so add a couple feet from front axle to front bumper as well.

I have no clue where that 158" comes from. Is our E350 something special? Or is that for newer ones? I can say our rear axle is maxed even before we load anything, and it came with air bags OEM. The RV maker put more "house" on there than the "incomplete truck" was supposed to carry it seems. Still on the road though! 🙂

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe there are 3 Ford-standard wheel bases, 138", 158", and 176". The 176" is rarely used in the shorter lengths. Keep in-mind that some RV outfitters adjust the wheel base to fit their particular floor plans. There are Ford & Chevy approved shops doing it for a living. It sounds like a science project given all the specialty parts required, but I believe everything is available from Ford & Chevy in particular increments.

Adjusting the wheel base when needed, helps with the various floor plans and lengths. Personally I appreciated keeping the 158" standard wheel base with our rig. The longest standard 176" would have been ideal, but then the wheel well for the left/rear pair of tires would be in the middle of our bathroom floor. With our low-profile rig with over-all lower ceiling, a step-up raised bathroom floor wouldn't work. 😞

[ron_dittmer]

pnichols,

It sounds like you stumbled on "That Perfect Unit" for you as did us. That is a very sweet place to be. I know what you mean about a list that can be written down about all the great reasons that make it so. Like you say, our slimmer PC is has it's benefits until parked, but we manage well with the tighter quarters. Our PC is nearly shoe-horned into our garage which is a "personal" benefit.

About our E350 with slight rear end sag. The fresh water tank is in the worst possible place with consideration to weight distribution. It is right above the rear bumper, passenger side corner. We like to travel with it full which creates the condition. A year or two later, Phoenix relocated the fresh water tank in our model, placing it more forward and more centered in between the rear tires. That made a difference in weight distribution and rear end sag, but I feel at a notable sacrifice to the under-bed outside storage compartment. Everything has it's trade-offs.

Where is our dinette, refrigerator, generator, propane tank, and several outside storage cabinets located in our PC? With exception to the outside storage compartment they are all between the axles. I pay attention to what is kept in our outside storage, it primarily stores our barbeque grill, many sacks of lynx blocks, and other light weight bulk.

[BFL13]

ron.dittmer wrote:
I agree in that 25 feet is a good cut-off between a Ford E350 and an E450 chassis, a Chevy 3500 and a 4500.

An E350 chassis at 24-11" would be fine as long as the frame was stretched increasing the 158" wheel base to notably more. This would better distribute the weight between front and rear axles, properly utilizing the extra load capability of the front axle.

Most short rigs have too much weight on the rear axle, and too little weight on the front axle causing "rear end sag". The condition also negatively affects handling. Our 11 year old E350 rig is 23'-8" long with a Ford standard 158" wheel base suffers from it. I had to invest in suspension upgrades to get the handling just right. Our rear end sag is very slight, a non-issue.
.

I don't know much about other Class Cs or Fords, but am curious about the above figures.

The 1991 E350 dually we got last year (see pic in profile) has a wheel base of 176 inches and has 140 inch overhang behind that, the way I measured it. (front to rear axles) That is 26.3 feet and brochure says the Rv is 28.5 overall, so add a couple feet from front axle to front bumper as well.

I have no clue where that 158" comes from. Is our E350 something special? Or is that for newer ones? I can say our rear axle is maxed even before we load anything, and it came with air bags OEM. The RV maker put more "house" on there than the "incomplete truck" was supposed to carry it seems. Still on the road though! 🙂