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Inverter install idea. We have no inverter

kmb1966
Explorer
Explorer
We are the new to us owners of a 2003 Newmar Dutchstar. This unit did not come with an inverter. I have an idea on how to possibly install an inverter in this unit, but would like some feedback on this install idea:
The battery system is in the bin next to where the inverter system is usually installed by Newmar. My idea is to install a 2000 or 3000 watt inverter in that bin, since it will be a short run to the battery system and the inverter remote can be easily ran inside a cabinet at that point so that the inverter can be turned on/off from inside the unit (close to the breaker box). Then using some #10/2/G wire (was considering the metallic shielded type) running the #10 wire to the other side of the motorhome where the 50 amp power shore cord area is located. I can see a direct shot from the inverter bin to the power shore cord area.
In the shore cord power bin area, install a 30 amp receptacle.
The procedure would be to plug the 50 amp shore cord into the 30 amp receptacle using the dogbone(50/30 adapter). When traveling leave the connection plugged in, and turn OFF the charger on the breaker box, turn ON the inverter. (Obviously do not turn on the air conditioners). By this method, all plugs should be 110v running on the inverter. If desiring the run the generator and air conditioner, we would turn OFF the inverter, start the generator, turn back on the charger.
Does this make sense? does anyone else hook up their inverter this way? Is there a better more reasonable method?
18 REPLIES 18

tropical36
Explorer
Explorer
kmb1966 wrote:
tropical36 wrote:
kmb1966 wrote:
We are the new to us owners of a 2003 Newmar Dutchstar. This unit did not come with an inverter. I have an idea on how to possibly install an inverter in this unit, but would like some feedback on this install idea:
The battery system is in the bin next to where the inverter system is usually installed by Newmar. My idea is to install a 2000 or 3000 watt inverter in that bin, since it will be a short run to the battery system and the inverter remote can be easily ran inside a cabinet at that point so that the inverter can be turned on/off from inside the unit (close to the breaker box). Then using some #10/2/G wire (was considering the metallic shielded type) running the #10 wire to the other side of the motorhome where the 50 amp power shore cord area is located. I can see a direct shot from the inverter bin to the power shore cord area.
In the shore cord power bin area, install a 30 amp receptacle.
The procedure would be to plug the 50 amp shore cord into the 30 amp receptacle using the dogbone(50/30 adapter). When traveling leave the connection plugged in, and turn OFF the charger on the breaker box, turn ON the inverter. (Obviously do not turn on the air conditioners). By this method, all plugs should be 110v running on the inverter. If desiring the run the generator and air conditioner, we would turn OFF the inverter, start the generator, turn back on the charger.
Does this make sense? does anyone else hook up their inverter this way? Is there a better more reasonable method?

Are you saying that this coach never had an inverter/charger as OEM? Hard to believe, but if it didn't, then it certainly had a converter, so is this still wired in, as it came from the factory?
If you are starting from scratch with an inverter charger, then I would probably install it, according to a later Newmar wiring diagram, that had such.
Mine is whole house feed thru, for the most part and except for the obvious, like the ac/heat pumps and block heater. I think that this is the way you should want to go.

I keep waiting for someone with a like coach, saying that theirs is so equipped and came from the factory that way.

I purchased this from the original owner, and he said it never had an inverter. I do see in the brochure/owner manual where it shows "Optional", and I see the storage bin where it was to be installed if the owner had purchased this option. No other changes have been made to the unit that I can see in the electrical system.

Would have never thought that, with a Dutchstar even for 2003.
I'd probably just leave the converter as is and install enough battery power for a 3KW inverter of the affordable MSW type. Use some huge cables, like 350MCM for the battery hookup.
For beginners and keeping it simple, I'd just plug the shore cord into it and shut off the breakers that you obviously won't be trying to power. Eventually you can tie it into the house and according to the way they were wired by Newmar.
I put a 1kw in our old gasser with two 6v batteries and ran some private outlets here and there, so we could reach them with an extension cord for the TV and such. Also ran a circuit behind the fridge and used it going down the road, instead of propane and especially since we always had trouble keeping it on with gas.
"We are often so caught up in our destination that we forget to appreciate the journey."

07 Revolution LE 40E_Spartan MM_06 400HP C9 CAT_Allison 3000.

Dinghy_2010 Jeep Wrangler JKU ISLANDER.

1998 36ft. National Tropi-Cal Chevy Model 6350 (Sold)

kmb1966
Explorer
Explorer
tropical36 wrote:
kmb1966 wrote:
We are the new to us owners of a 2003 Newmar Dutchstar. This unit did not come with an inverter. I have an idea on how to possibly install an inverter in this unit, but would like some feedback on this install idea:
The battery system is in the bin next to where the inverter system is usually installed by Newmar. My idea is to install a 2000 or 3000 watt inverter in that bin, since it will be a short run to the battery system and the inverter remote can be easily ran inside a cabinet at that point so that the inverter can be turned on/off from inside the unit (close to the breaker box). Then using some #10/2/G wire (was considering the metallic shielded type) running the #10 wire to the other side of the motorhome where the 50 amp power shore cord area is located. I can see a direct shot from the inverter bin to the power shore cord area.
In the shore cord power bin area, install a 30 amp receptacle.
The procedure would be to plug the 50 amp shore cord into the 30 amp receptacle using the dogbone(50/30 adapter). When traveling leave the connection plugged in, and turn OFF the charger on the breaker box, turn ON the inverter. (Obviously do not turn on the air conditioners). By this method, all plugs should be 110v running on the inverter. If desiring the run the generator and air conditioner, we would turn OFF the inverter, start the generator, turn back on the charger.
Does this make sense? does anyone else hook up their inverter this way? Is there a better more reasonable method?

Are you saying that this coach never had an inverter/charger as OEM? Hard to believe, but if it didn't, then it certainly had a converter, so is this still wired in, as it came from the factory?
If you are starting from scratch with an inverter charger, then I would probably install it, according to a later Newmar wiring diagram, that had such.
Mine is whole house feed thru, for the most part and except for the obvious, like the ac/heat pumps and block heater. I think that this is the way you should want to go.

I keep waiting for someone with a like coach, saying that theirs is so equipped and came from the factory that way.

I purchased this from the original owner, and he said it never had an inverter. I do see in the brochure/owner manual where it shows "Optional", and I see the storage bin where it was to be installed if the owner had purchased this option. No other changes have been made to the unit that I can see in the electrical system.

tropical36
Explorer
Explorer
kmb1966 wrote:
We are the new to us owners of a 2003 Newmar Dutchstar. This unit did not come with an inverter. I have an idea on how to possibly install an inverter in this unit, but would like some feedback on this install idea:
The battery system is in the bin next to where the inverter system is usually installed by Newmar. My idea is to install a 2000 or 3000 watt inverter in that bin, since it will be a short run to the battery system and the inverter remote can be easily ran inside a cabinet at that point so that the inverter can be turned on/off from inside the unit (close to the breaker box). Then using some #10/2/G wire (was considering the metallic shielded type) running the #10 wire to the other side of the motorhome where the 50 amp power shore cord area is located. I can see a direct shot from the inverter bin to the power shore cord area.
In the shore cord power bin area, install a 30 amp receptacle.
The procedure would be to plug the 50 amp shore cord into the 30 amp receptacle using the dogbone(50/30 adapter). When traveling leave the connection plugged in, and turn OFF the charger on the breaker box, turn ON the inverter. (Obviously do not turn on the air conditioners). By this method, all plugs should be 110v running on the inverter. If desiring the run the generator and air conditioner, we would turn OFF the inverter, start the generator, turn back on the charger.
Does this make sense? does anyone else hook up their inverter this way? Is there a better more reasonable method?

Are you saying that this coach never had an inverter/charger as OEM? Hard to believe, but if it didn't, then it certainly had a converter, so is this still wired in, as it came from the factory?
If you are starting from scratch with an inverter charger, then I would probably install it, according to a later Newmar wiring diagram, that had such.
Mine is whole house feed thru, for the most part and except for the obvious, like the ac/heat pumps and block heater. I think that this is the way you should want to go.

I keep waiting for someone with a like coach, saying that theirs is so equipped and came from the factory that way.
"We are often so caught up in our destination that we forget to appreciate the journey."

07 Revolution LE 40E_Spartan MM_06 400HP C9 CAT_Allison 3000.

Dinghy_2010 Jeep Wrangler JKU ISLANDER.

1998 36ft. National Tropi-Cal Chevy Model 6350 (Sold)

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
MountainAir05 wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
My Microwave is a hog. It draws 207 amps which my alternator could certainly not sustain for any long period of time--unless I wish to replace the alternator.


hope you mean 207 watts not amps


207 amps @ 12 volts, read from the Magnum "head", so not 100% accurate. But still a whole passel of amps. On "good" shore power it draws 1591 watts.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Dale_Traveling
Explorer II
Explorer II
I think the idea is doable. There are a couple of items that will need to be addressed prior to each use (A/C's, converter, water heater off electric for example) but easy enough. I like the simplicity of the setup. A pass thru inverter and a sub panel would be nice but just plugging the shore power into a 30 amp outlet when needed keeps it simple and easy to work with later if there are problems.

My inverter is also in a storage compartment next to the batteries and I ran exterior rated 12 gauge cable to the other side of the coach which powers two Xantrex power transfer relays that energize the two circuits I wanted to be active when off the grid or generator.
2006 Hurricane 31D built on a 2006 Ford F53

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
what you want to do will work fine
many of us do it in similar fashion
i mounted my inverter near the 4d AGM battery i but in the storage bay
and cord to a 30amp outlet in the electric bay
you don't need 2000w for what you are planning
600w-1000w will work with power to spare
2000w is for coffee makers and MW, hair dryer etc..
Your blender might need high power, if it is one of those food processor juicer models
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

msturtz
Explorer
Explorer
kmb1966 wrote:
donn0128 wrote:
First question, why?
Second question, what do you want to power?
Third question, how big is your battery bank?
Last question, how do you plan to recharge the batteries?

Why?: We want to have outlets live in the event we want to plug in a laptop, or something small like a blender, or can opener, or the 1 tv we have.
What?: Laptops, front tv, small items but like the idea of all outlets being available.
How big is the battery bank?: 4 6-volt Trojan

My thoughts on this is that we would only use it this way when driving down the road (we don't boondock). When we plug in we would turn back on the charger. I can do this install myself with the only cost being the inverter itself and the wire, receptacle.
The other methods go beyond my capabilities and would likely be much more costly with exactly what benefit?

Itโ€™s not as complicated as it seems. In your existing breaker box you circuit breakers that feed each circuit. Usually the outlets are only a few breakers. Typically 1 for the kitchen and another for the bathroom and one more for the rest of the outlets. You are removing one of the breakers and replacing it with a new 30 amps single breaker. Then use 10 AWG wire to the inverter. Another 10 AWG wire will come from the inverter to a new sub-panel next take the wires for the circuits that you want to power out of the existing panel and connect them into the new inverter panel. Finally install the breakers from the existing panel into the new panel.

The problem with using a plug to power a coach from an onboard inverter using the existing wiring is it is dangerous. You can easily have a โ€œhot skinโ€œ condition. Non-hard wired inverters are not designed to be connected to any type of distribution wiring. There can be dangerous voltages present on the neutral line. It seems easy but is against code for a reason.
FMCA member

time2roll
Explorer II
Explorer II
2000 watts is max you would need. Your plan is fine. I recommend sine wave. Read the instructions before you click and buy that it is OK to power a subpanel. (your main panel is considered a subpanel for power distribution)

kmb1966
Explorer
Explorer
donn0128 wrote:
First question, why?
Second question, what do you want to power?
Third question, how big is your battery bank?
Last question, how do you plan to recharge the batteries?

Why?: We want to have outlets live in the event we want to plug in a laptop, or something small like a blender, or can opener, or the 1 tv we have.
What?: Laptops, front tv, small items but like the idea of all outlets being available.
How big is the battery bank?: 4 6-volt Trojan

My thoughts on this is that we would only use it this way when driving down the road (we don't boondock). When we plug in we would turn back on the charger. I can do this install myself with the only cost being the inverter itself and the wire, receptacle.
The other methods go beyond my capabilities and would likely be much more costly with exactly what benefit?

MountainAir05
Explorer II
Explorer II
pianotuna wrote:
My Microwave is a hog. It draws 207 amps which my alternator could certainly not sustain for any long period of time--unless I wish to replace the alternator.

I do have manual control over the dual charging circuits and they are protected by twin 50 amp automatic circuit breakers. It is interesting to watch the ammeter as they "wink" on and off.


hope you mean 207 watts not amps

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
My Microwave is a hog. It draws 207 amps which my alternator could certainly not sustain for any long period of time--unless I wish to replace the alternator.

I do have manual control over the dual charging circuits and they are protected by twin 50 amp automatic circuit breakers. It is interesting to watch the ammeter as they "wink" on and off.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
theoldwizard1,

Please resize the width of the photo. It makes it hard to read when one has to scroll from side to side on nearly every line in the thread.

You must have one heck of an alternator if you are able to sustain running a roof air conditioner. I could do about 20 minutes @ 1200 watts before the starter battery dropped to 12.7 volts. That was with 256 watts of solar "helping" out.

I'll go back to doing the 1200 watts now that I'm no longer full time. My duty cycle is 20 minutes "on" and 30 minutes "off".
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

theoldwizard1
Explorer
Explorer
MrWizard wrote:

battery bank size is NOT primary importance if this is intended for drive time medium loads with engine running

battery bank becomes important for overnight use and large loads like Coffee maker or MW

With properly sized wiring, even a "smart charging system" will MAINTAIN a well charged battery bank while driving and running house A/C or other heavy loads.

theoldwizard1
Explorer
Explorer
msturtz wrote:
I would recommend that you install an inverter with an internal automatic transfer switch. Magnum Energy and Xantrex have inverters like this. If you want to simplify this even further you can get an inverter that has an internal ... charger which would eliminate the stand alone converter.


That is the way to go ! Disconnect the existing converter and wire the DC distribution (fuse) panel directly to the battery bank.

Samlex makes several model like this that are very easy to install because all connections are made at the inverter/charge/transfer switch.

House batteries connect to #1 and #2. Output from solar charge controller (if you have one) connect to #3 and #4.



The rest of the connection go here.



The installation manual has instruction for how to wire this to automatically start the generator.