Heating basement in the winter

[ssands]

We have a 2014 Tiffin Allegro RED and are planning to spend some of the winter in Pigeon Forge Tn. I'm looking for suggestions on propane usage while there. There aren't any propane people that will come to your coach. Renting a larger bottle from them requires a 3 year contract. The CG says that everyone breaks down and drives to the propane supplier. I'm trying to avoid that hassle. One option is to buy a 30 or 40 LB bottle and tie it in. There's not enough room to install an "Extend-a-stay". We can use electric inside the coach but I worry about keeping the basement warm enough to keep the pipes from freezing.

[howdy35]

I solve the problem of keeping the basement warm by putting an electric heater along with a fan to circulate air in the basement near the dump valves. I then run a separate 110 extension cord to the heater and fan. Plug it in when needed and unplug when not needed. I also have a remote thermometer in the basement to monitor temp. Has worked for me since 2002 with my rig. Just another way to beat the cold.

Hope this helps you.

Arnold

[deeje1]

Another low-energy option since you are diesel is the Eberspacher hydronic unit. The hoses would give off adequate heat for your peace of mind. Another brand is Webasto.It is a little more money,but less maintenance.

[Bill_Satellite]

Don't confuse reality with hate. Stating facts is not hateful.

[pianotuna]

No, I don't hate Cheap Heat. It is not suited to my needs. It is great if you live in a mild climate, especially if it never gets below 0 c (32 f). They used to be quite pricey--but I understand they are much more reasonable cost wise, now.

I still believe they should have a fail over to propane as part of their package, should the shore power go down. Or at least offer fail over as an "upgrade".

Seven days ago, at my current location, the shore power was out for 5 hours. In seriously cold weather that is enough to freeze the fresh water lines and the water pump. Of course that would not happen to me as my electric heat does fail over to propane. Starting Oct 14, I'll be on a two week trip with no access to 30 amp let alone 50 amp power. I'll manage just fine on two 15 amp circuits.

[rhagfo]

pianotuna wrote:
Another issue for Cheap Heat is that they can't be used at all with a 15 amp service. Whereas a stand alone heater can still be used to dramatically reduce propane consumption.

It is easy to add an additional auxiliary shore power cord. In my case I added two, so I can use the OEM 30, a 20, and a 15 amp. That means, if there are sufficient 15 amp circuits, I can have up to 5400 watts of heating available. Of that, I never use more than 1440 per circuit (80% continuous load).

The OP's question was about preventing basement freeze up. On a 30 amp service the Cheap Heat would prevent such a situation. But so will a $25.00 dual window fan. It is currently -3 c (26 f) where I am. It is taking 2500 watts to keep the RV at a toasty 21.5 c (71 f). That would mean having the 50 amp version of the Cheap Heat. The 30 amp version would not be adequate to the need.

My peak load in the coldest part of winter is about 7100 watts. Which means that even the Cheap Heat 5000 watt would be over matched.

I do realize that many folks don't camp in weather at extreme low temperatures. My best "guess" is the Cheap Heat 5000 watt can manage down to about -20 c (-4 f). After that--you will burn a LOT of propane. My own experience is about 100 lbs in 72 hours.

You really hate Cheap Heat don't you!

[pianotuna]

Another issue for Cheap Heat is that they can't be used at all with a 15 amp service. Whereas a stand alone heater can still be used to dramatically reduce propane consumption.

It is easy to add an additional auxiliary shore power cord. In my case I added two, so I can use the OEM 30, a 20, and a 15 amp. That means, if there are sufficient 15 amp circuits, I can have up to 5400 watts of heating available. Of that, I never use more than 1440 per circuit (80% continuous load).

The OP's question was about preventing basement freeze up. On a 30 amp service the Cheap Heat would prevent such a situation. But so will a $25.00 dual window fan. It is currently -3 c (26 f) where I am. It is taking 2500 watts to keep the RV at a toasty 21.5 c (71 f). That would mean having the 50 amp version of the Cheap Heat. The 30 amp version would not be adequate to the need.

My peak load in the coldest part of winter is about 7100 watts. Which means that even the Cheap Heat 5000 watt would be over matched.

I do realize that many folks don't camp in weather at extreme low temperatures. My best "guess" is the Cheap Heat 5000 watt can manage down to about -20 c (-4 f). After that--you will burn a LOT of propane. My own experience is about 100 lbs in 72 hours.

[rhagfo]

Bill.Satellite wrote:
I should have said that a coach wired for 50 amp is required. Can we agree on that? I have not seen a Cheap Heat system that was available for coaches that could only supply 120V power on 1 leg since the 5000W option would never be available. I get it that you either work for Cheap Heat or believe that only you "get it" but for most folks, Cheap Heat is neither cheap or practical.

Not required at all, a smaller coach with only a 30 amp service can be wired for 1,800 watt setting. On the 1,800 watt setting it is run on a 20 amp CB.
It is true that the 5,000 watt setting will not be available on a 30 amp service in the RV.

[Bill_Satellite]

I should have said that a coach wired for 50 amp is required. Can we agree on that? I have not seen a Cheap Heat system that was available for coaches that could only supply 120V power on 1 leg since the 5000W option would never be available. I get it that you either work for Cheap Heat or believe that only you "get it" but for most folks, Cheap Heat is neither cheap or practical.

[rhagfo]

Bill.Satellite wrote:
Cheap Heat has some very specific requirements and high amperage requirements. You need 50 amp service at a minimum and some special wiring is required.
If you use electric heat inside, you can also use electric heat outside. We use a couple of 100W light bulbs in the wet bay and where any plumbing exists. There are also some really nice, really small 250W electric heaters that will do the job and circulate the air as well. If you plan on "seriously cold" camping you might need the propane and the electric heat to keep your plumbing safe but in most 20's - 30's camping, most class A's will do just find with a bit of supplemental heat.

Well sorry to say Cheap Heat is not nearly that limiting! I state this as a happy user.

#1 A 50 amp service is NOT required! I am currently on a 30 amp service and will likely be able to keep our 32' Keystone Copper Canyon warm down to about high 30's low 40's, at 30 amps using 1,800 watt heating element. yes, the air coming out of the vents is cooler, and the furnace needs to run longer to heat.

#2 When on 50 amps and getting 5,000 watts of heat it works great easily to at least the low 20's, just haven't been lower than that yet.

#3 No currently RV Comfort Systems does't offer a auto fail over if the power goes out, but it would be easy use a 110 to 12 volt transformer to operate a relay in the Gas/Electric switch circuit to force to gas if the relay lost power.

#4 They currently add an auto switch over from 50 amp service to 30 amp service. I am currently looking at this as it is about a 20 minute operation to manually switch from 50 to 30 amp.

The system install is easily done by someone familiar with electrical wiring. I did the install of my system. The hardest part was installing the gas/electric switch next to the T-Stat as the T-Stat is about 15' from the furnace, and required snaking the cable down inside a wall and through the basement to the furnace location.

[pianotuna]

There are at least two problems with the Cheap Heat system.

1. you can not use "electric" to supplement the output of the propane furnace.
2. if the power goes "off" the Cheap Heat does not fail over to propane heating.

With "stand alone" heaters the propane can be an excellent back up. I do heat 100% electrically and have done so at -37 c (-34 f).

[Bill_Satellite]

Cheap Heat has some very specific requirements and high amperage requirements. You need 50 amp service at a minimum and some special wiring is required.
If you use electric heat inside, you can also use electric heat outside. We use a couple of 100W light bulbs in the wet bay and where any plumbing exists. There are also some really nice, really small 250W electric heaters that will do the job and circulate the air as well. If you plan on "seriously cold" camping you might need the propane and the electric heat to keep your plumbing safe but in most 20's - 30's camping, most class A's will do just find with a bit of supplemental heat.

[Pirate1]

If I had room I would install Cheap Heat which is basically an electric heating add-on which uses your duct work.

[deeje1]

Just came back from the West. The winter-overers use that extra cylinder outside with an isolating valve and regulator to the main utility line. Just make sure your connections are outside any compartment and has fresh air.
Newer units direct heated air through ducting. Ne-e-e-ver use heat tape=majority of fires (hillbilly Ahia chronicles)

[DrewE]

It looks like the average daily lows are not much below freezing and the average daily highs are well above freezing year round in Pigeon Forge. Much of the time you probably would not need to do anything to prevent freezing of tanks in enclosed basement compartments, doubly so if the RV is generally heated in some fashion or another. I suspect (but do not know) that the pipes are all inside the insulated portion of the RV, rather than being outside or in the basement area; that's generally the case for RVs that are set up to be usable in freezing weather.

According to the specs I see online, a 2014 Tiffen Allegro Red 38 QRA has a 24 gallon propane tank, or around 80 pounds usable capacity.