We're going to the PA RV show and need a bit of advice.

[BeerBrewer]

My wife and I are new to RVing, but not new to camping. I used to be an avid backpacker, my wife grew up camping with a pop-up and we've done a bit of tent camping together. Our goal is to buy a tow-able RV (not decided between a 5th wheel or TT) and tour the USA and Canada. So this week we are headed off our first RV show in PA! We are going with a couple objectives in mind. First and foremost, we hope to learn a lot about RVing and towing. We thought that the show would be a good place see a lot of different RVs. Second, decide upon a trailer we like. Third, (probably toughest objective), we are hoping to find a layout and trailer with a layout that we like AND that my current truck (2006 4X4 Toyota Tundra Access Cab, 4.7L with the towing package) can SAFELY tow. If this proves impossible (which it may be) we are going to pick the "best" trailer and upgrade my truck to at least a 3/4 ton truck. As you all know this is a very expensive option.

I've already made a couple posts on my truck dilemma and I know what it can't do but I haven't quite figured out what it can do. According to my manual it's "payload" is 12,000 lbs (truck, trailer and cargo) with a max 700 lb tongue wt. The truck weighs 5000 lbs, so that leaves 7000 lbs for the trailer and cargo. I believe that my truck's most limiting factor is the low tongue wt. What confuses me is most trailer specs give the UVW or dry wt and hitch weight (when empty). Then they give the cargo wt and/or the GVWR, but don't give the ultimate tongue weight. I'm sure that's because it varies with how the trailer is loaded. For instance today I saw spec on Apex Ultra-lite 213RDS trailer that looks like it might be tow-able withe my Tundra. The specs are follows: Hitch Weight: 467 lb, UVW : 3806 lb, GVWR: 6000 lb, CCC: 2194 lb, Length: 25' 0". On the surface, this looks okay, but I don't know how loading the trailer will effect the tongue wt. The trailer cargo storage is right up front, so I would expect its load to greatly effect the tongue wt and there doesn't seem like there are a lot other areas, so there may not be a lot of ways to redistribute the load. In your expert opinions, would my Tundra handle this TT? Lastly, we'd use a weight distribution hitch with anti-sway.

Its NOT that I'm planning to buy this trailer (I've never even saw it) I'm only asking so I don't get into a debate with a salesmen or anyone else for that matter as we walk around the show. Lastly, my Tundra is in like new condition, has been garaged for its entire life and almost all of its mileage is from long trips to Maine. It will delay us about a year to gather the funds to replace my truck.

[camperdave]

BeerBrewer wrote:
Even though my truck has been garaged and only has 58K miles on it, it is almost 14 years old so it's towing days are numbered.

My truck is 20 years old with 120k miles and tows as well as the day I bought it. I'd take it coast to coast any time. You should be good for another 15 years with that truck if you want. Of course, if you want a bigger trailer than you can tow with it or just want a change that's perfectly fine. But it sure is nice having no truck payment! :C

[BeerBrewer]

I thought an update was in order. Well we attended the RV show in Hersey for a couple days and instead of heading home on Sunday as planned, we attended another show near Baltimore (Timonium, Maryland). We had a great time and learned a lot and no we didn't buy anything, but it was oh so tempting.

The Hersey show was fantastic, it was unbelievably huge! The Timonium show was much smaller, but still nice. The prices at both shows seemed similar. We were told that these are the lowest prices we'd see. Is that true? The sales people were all very helpful and not pushy at all. We spent an entire day just looking at all of different types of RVs (some were absolutely amazing) and we even stopped in the a lot of the other vendor tents just to see what they were selling. Then on the second day we narrowed our search down our search to two things, TTs with agreeable layouts that we can safely tow and then we look for TTs that we'd buy if we upgraded our truck. So now we have a fairly good idea of what we like and what we don't. Unfortunately, our two favorite lite "tow-able" TTs featured brand new layouts, so we stand zero chance of buying one of those used, hopefully we'll get close.

So now our immediate plan is to look for a used TT that is within our tow vehicles capabilities. We'll probably keep that TT for a year, maybe two, just so we can get some RVing experience under our belt. Even though my truck has been garaged and only has 58K miles on it, it is almost 14 years old so it's towing days are numbered. Who knows maybe at the next PA RV show we'll have a new truck and we'll trade in the old TT and buy a new one.

We were very impressed with the caliber of the sales people at the show. They all seemed to know their products well and almost never said anything bad about their competition. I was afraid that some would try to lead us towards TT that were too heavy and none did. They almost all asked what we were planning to tow with and they would steer towards TTs that were within limits.

I'd like to thank you all for you input, it was all very helpful.

[John_Wayne]

Rent a few in different sizes and see how your truck tows them. While camping in the rentals decide what you want in a floor plan and what you can or can't live with. Walk around bed would be one example. Then buy a used one use it for a few years and you'll change your mind on what you want and need. By then you'll want a bigger truck buy one, then look for your next trailer.

[Tachdriver]

BeerBrewer wrote:
Tacdriver....The GWR of the truck is 6300 lbs, the GAWR-Frt is 3500 lbs, GAWR-Rear is 3650. According the manual the vehicle weight capacity is 1355 lbs. My know truck weighs 5000 lbs (with me, a passenger, full tank of fuel and nothing else), I know I've weighed it dozens of times. According to the manual it can tow a 7000 pound trailer with no more than a 700 lb tongue wt. The manual also says that the total weight of the truck, trailer, passengers, cargo...everything can not exceed 12,000 lbs. I also know that the tongue weight factors into that number but I've read that the TT manufacturer includes the tongue wt in their UVW and GVWR numbers, so there is no need for me to add it in again. The wheelbase of the truck is 128.3 inches.

So am I wrong in saying that based upon these numbers that my tundra should be able to handle the Apex trailer that I mentioned above?

I also fully understand that my Tundra can't handle a 5th wheel, even though I've seem people doing it. If we choose 5th wheel we'd be most likely using a 1 ton or 3/4 truck and my first choice would be to buy a new-ish used one.

I should have mentioned above that we have no intention of buying a new trailer at the show. Our main goal is to just look at a lot of RVs, learn a lot and have a good time. If we fall in love with a trailer we'd most certainly look for a used one.

I know my Ford had a sticker for payload rating. The Apex Ultra light seems like a doable trailer for your set up. Toyota's have come into the towing market and now compete with Chevy/Dodge/GMC/Ford....etc.

The first question and pardon my ignorance if I not read all your posts but determine how you will use the rig. Will you be doing weekend camping or longer haul?

I bought my first rig in 2012. After a number of weekend use I started to branch out to longer trips from KY to Florida in which I realized that with visiting friends I needed a bigger one :B.

Nothing wrong with starting out with a lighter rig and your truck but if you want to leave a larger carbon foot print then going bigger would suit you all.

[JimK-NY]

Just a couple of comments that might help with shopping and decision making.

Count on the RV weighing lots more than you expect.

Watch out for RV salesmen. Many are a notch below used car salesmen. They will also make it attractive to upsize.

Consider buying used. RVs depreciate rapidly and many used RVs are virtually new.

If you buy a TT, look out. Many are built really cheap and tires and axles will barely carry the load.

As to that 12 year old Tundra, if it were me I would consider a pop up tent trailer or a teardrop or other very small TT. What you can theoretically tow might make sense for a local flat lander trip. If you are going to do cross country including real mountain driving, having a margin makes more sense.

BTW, I'm a fellow Long Islander, currently traveling: Badlands, Yellowstone, Glacier, now Olympic NP.

[RobWNY]

donn0128 wrote:
RV shows are a great place to get confused and/or sold more than you can handle at a price that is more than you can find at a reputable dealer. As long as you go and look, great. Otherwise its a waste of time any money.
For a first timer, buy used. For your truck look at TTs under maybe 20 feet. You want bigger? Get a 1 ton. No need to buy a new 70K dollar truck. You can find well equipped 1 ton SRW trucks for under 50K if you do your homework.

I did just that. Last Spring, I located a 2017 1 Ton Ram with the 6.4 Hemi, Big Horn edition with a couple of extra bells and whistles. I bought it for 41,500 so deals are out there if you end up having to upgrade. It's getting to be that time of year when dealers want to dump the 2018 models too!

[troubledwaters]

You have the basics, but you are having a hard time seeing how it all fits together. The best place to see all that in my opinion is here: Read me, Read me

[BeerBrewer]

Tacdriver....The GWR of the truck is 6300 lbs, the GAWR-Frt is 3500 lbs, GAWR-Rear is 3650. According the manual the vehicle weight capacity is 1355 lbs. My know truck weighs 5000 lbs (with me, a passenger, full tank of fuel and nothing else), I know I've weighed it dozens of times. According to the manual it can tow a 7000 pound trailer with no more than a 700 lb tongue wt. The manual also says that the total weight of the truck, trailer, passengers, cargo...everything can not exceed 12,000 lbs. I also know that the tongue weight factors into that number but I've read that the TT manufacturer includes the tongue wt in their UVW and GVWR numbers, so there is no need for me to add it in again. The wheelbase of the truck is 128.3 inches.

So am I wrong in saying that based upon these numbers that my tundra should be able to handle the Apex trailer that I mentioned above?

I also fully understand that my Tundra can't handle a 5th wheel, even though I've seem people doing it. If we choose 5th wheel we'd be most likely using a 1 ton or 3/4 truck and my first choice would be to buy a new-ish used one.

I should have mentioned above that we have no intention of buying a new trailer at the show. Our main goal is to just look at a lot of RVs, learn a lot and have a good time. If we fall in love with a trailer we'd most certainly look for a used one.

[Jebby14]

I don't know YOUR tundra but I suspect your payload will be between 1500 and 1600 lbs.

fast math forgive my crappy estimates

you and wife = 300 lbs (guessing take no offence)

gear in truck = 300 lbs (doesn't take much in the bed to eaqual some weight. few coolers, bikes, bbq, bags whatever also includes any aftermarket stuff on the truck)

Weight distributing hitch 100 lbs

payload - stuff in truck = whats left for trailer

1550-300-300-100=850 for tongue (not getting into what your hitch or rear axle is rated for)

campers loaded weight x .15 = tongue weight

(remember dry weight means nothing go with campers weight loaded at capacity to account for gear and batteries and propane and what not)

850/.15 - 5666 ish pounds fully loaded ready to camp with water in tanks and propane and everything.

run the numbers with some fluff room for piece of mind and remember if you are touring the country you will not be packed light.

doable YES. don't expect to do it in a giant rolling house. I would think most campers in the 20 foot range would be a good fit.

[DutchmenSport]

Go to the show with absolutely NO expectations or NO pre-conceived ideas. Just let "it" happen. Let each camper you look at "speak" to you. Some will turn you off immediately. Some will stand out and you'll go... "OH WOW!" Just soak it all in. Take lots of photos you can look at later and have something to remember. Take photos of the show stickers on the campers that list the price and the details about each camper you look at. You can study this out later by going to the Internet and searching deeper using the manufacturers web site. Also eat the hotdogs if they offer them at the show, kicks back and just enjoy the moment.

For entertainment, sit back a few moments and just watch the people. Listen to their conversations. Or better yet, follow someone, from a distance and hear their comments and reactions about this-or-that camper. You'll pick up a lot of insight this way.

Don't spend much time with the dealers themselves. You are there to enjoy the moment, and make no decisions while there, except what to put on your hotdog, ketchup, mustard, or both!

RV shows can be a lot of fun if you go into them with no expectations. If you are deliberately looking for something, looking for answers, you probably won't find them there. You'll walk away even more overwhelmed and confused and on information overload!

One more thing, if it is really your plan to get a 3/4 ton truck as a new tow vehicle, then stay away from anything with 3 axles, even if you fall in love with one. It will be too big for a 3/4 ton. Just stay away from them.

Edit:
Another thing. When you go to an RV show, and even if you go visit an RV dealership, when you first see a new (to you) camper in the lot or in the showroom, they seem frightening HUGE on the outside. Inside they don't seem quite as daunting.

You think to yourself as you stand outside and look at it, this is a monster. Eventually, you actually buy the monster. Once home, parked in the drive way, after towing a couple times, it REALLY doesn't seem that BIG and daunting any more! Really!

[Dennis12]

Your Tundra will be fine towing. Find the floor plan that you like and do not buy at the show. Start shopping your dealers after the show. I went to the Hershey show and i bought mine in Michigan two weeks later for 6K off of the best show price. Richards Motor Sales (Chris) good people to work with. A 6 hr drive for me but worth the money.

[Optimistic_Para]

With a travel trailer, the tongue weight should be somewhere between 10% and 15% of it's total loaded weight. And, yes, you should shift weight around inside your trailer to achieve that. If you go to a fifth wheel trailer, approximately 25% of the trailers weight should sit in the bed of your truck. Again, you may have to shift weight to achieve that.

This brings up another point. Somewhere on your truck is a sticker that not only gives the truck's Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, it should also give both Gross Axle Weight Ratings (GAWR) - in other words, how much weight each axle can safely carry. With either a travel trailer or fifth wheel, you need to make sure you don't exceed the rear axle's GAWR.

In addition to weight, many towing guides also show the maximum Frontal Area (in sq ft) that the vehicle can pull. Remember that dragging a trailer down the highway is akin to pulling an open parachute behind your truck.

Finally, just because a vehicle is rated to pull a trailer of X pounds, that doesn't mean it's a good idea to pull that much all the time. I've seen a rule of thumb that you should have a trailer that weighs no more than 80% of your maximum towing weight. Try pulling 100% all the time and you will certainly shorten the life of many of the components on your truck.

Let me just add that in addition to using RV forums like this one as an information source, you should also look for a Toyota Owner's Forum and use that as a cross check. You may well find more Toyota owners who tow there than you do here.

[donn0128]

RV shows are a great place to get confused and/or sold more than you can handle at a price that is more than you can find at a reputable dealer. As long as you go and look, great. Otherwise its a waste of time any money.
For a first timer, buy used. For your truck look at TTs under maybe 20 feet. You want bigger? Get a 1 ton. No need to buy a new 70K dollar truck. You can find well equipped 1 ton SRW trucks for under 50K if you do your homework.

[Tachdriver]

BeerBrewer wrote:

I've already made a couple posts on my truck dilemma and I know what it can't do but I haven't quite figured out what it can do. According to my manual it's "payload" is 12,000 lbs (truck, trailer and cargo) with a max 700 lb tongue wt.

Your payload is what your truck can carry, not "tow". Trailers and fifth wheels transfer part of its own weight to your truck taking up the payload. I have seen some of your posts but was not able to see if you calculated your payload. Make sure you do not have that nomenclature confused.

Once you have that you can move forward. There are tools here that can help you calculate what you can tow with your payload.