Inverter Help

[nayther]

Gathering up the materials/devices to start installing in our new rig which we'll have in a couple of weeks. Base line will be 2 T-105 GC 6 volt and 3000I Honda with remote start. Trailer is "solar ready" meaning wired from roof to charge controller location to battery compartment (at least I think that's what they mean, it's not the stupid little plug for a portable panel wired direct to the battery) so a 3 panel solar system is down the road shortly. Now my major question is do I get a super duper all in one inverter/charger with auto transfer or a less expensive inverter with a manual switchover? I'd like to keep the inverter on 24/7 when boondocking to maintain satellite settings, etc. I think the converter is a 3 stage but probably low amps

We dry camp in the desert most of the time but usually only a few days at a time so battery capacity should be OK with the 2 GC's and running the generator morning/evening for a couple of hours

I'm looking at 3,000 watt inverter so we CAN run the coffee pot if we're in a place where we can't run the generator early.

I've read a lot of threads here regarding this, separate components and ATS, all in ones with multistage chargers, etc. and some negatives about having both inverter and shore power connected simultaneously.

[Lantley]

full_mosey wrote:

Lantley wrote:

full_mosey wrote:

Lantley wrote:

What you are really showing is the ability of AGM's vs. wet cell.
AGM can rebound from 11.45 without issue. I think running your typical wet cell at 11.45 may do damage?

It is not the rebound that I believe is the issue.

I don't believe your typical 220AHs of flooded 2 x GC 6Vs will hold the 11.45V like the AGM does, but will LVD instead. More weight, more footprint/space; less performance.

HTH;
John

Maybe I don't understand or maybe we are saying the same thing. Your AGM batteries started above 12 volts. They slowly discharged to 11.45.
But they will take a charge back to 12 volts without issue or damaging the batteries.
My thought is if a wet cell is discharged to 11.45 the cells will be damaged and the battery will suffer from being discharged that much.
not sure what LVD means ?

We are not saying the same thing. 11.45V under load will not damage the battery. It says little about the battery's % of charge.

LVD is Low-Volt-Disconnect/Trip. This is an inverter specification. The documentation usually states that the inverter will shut down to protect the bank. The other reason for LVD is to protect the inverter. The LVD can also give a clue as to the robustness of the inverter. A lower LVD is better.

In the 11.45V test, I was using an inverter with a 10.5V warning(beep) and a 10V shutdown. I was nowhere near LVD. Some inverters have 11.5V LVD!

Now if you combine a pair of GCs with an inverter having a higher LVD, you are going to have quicker shutdown meaning less 120VAC run times. GCs drop Volts faster and lower than AGMs as the draw increases.

Conversely, the AGM with the same inverter will give longer 120V run times because the Volts will take longer to drop to the inverter's LVD. Best is combining AGM and a robust inverter with a 10V LVD.

HTH;
John

Got it.

[full_mosey]

Lantley wrote:

full_mosey wrote:

Lantley wrote:

What you are really showing is the ability of AGM's vs. wet cell.
AGM can rebound from 11.45 without issue. I think running your typical wet cell at 11.45 may do damage?

It is not the rebound that I believe is the issue.

I don't believe your typical 220AHs of flooded 2 x GC 6Vs will hold the 11.45V like the AGM does, but will LVD instead. More weight, more footprint/space; less performance.

HTH;
John

Maybe I don't understand or maybe we are saying the same thing. Your AGM batteries started above 12 volts. They slowly discharged to 11.45.
But they will take a charge back to 12 volts without issue or damaging the batteries.
My thought is if a wet cell is discharged to 11.45 the cells will be damaged and the battery will suffer from being discharged that much.
not sure what LVD means ?

We are not saying the same thing. 11.45V under load will not damage the battery. It says little about the battery's % of charge.

LVD is Low-Volt-Disconnect/Trip. This is an inverter specification. The documentation usually states that the inverter will shut down to protect the bank. The other reason for LVD is to protect the inverter. The LVD can also give a clue as to the robustness of the inverter. A lower LVD is better.

In the 11.45V test, I was using an inverter with a 10.5V warning(beep) and a 10V shutdown. I was nowhere near LVD. Some inverters have 11.5V LVD!

Now if you combine a pair of GCs with an inverter having a higher LVD, you are going to have quicker shutdown meaning less 120VAC run times. GCs drop Volts faster and lower than AGMs as the draw increases.

Conversely, the AGM with the same inverter will give longer 120V run times because the Volts will take longer to drop to the inverter's LVD. Best is combining AGM and a robust inverter with a 10V LVD.

HTH;
John

[Lantley]

full_mosey wrote:

Lantley wrote:

What you are really showing is the ability of AGM's vs. wet cell.
AGM can rebound from 11.45 without issue. I think running your typical wet cell at 11.45 may do damage?

It is not the rebound that I believe is the issue.

I don't believe your typical 220AHs of flooded 2 x GC 6Vs will hold the 11.45V like the AGM does, but will LVD instead. More weight, more footprint/space; less performance.

HTH;
John

Maybe I don't understand or maybe we are saying the same thing. Your AGM batteries started above 12 volts. They slowly discharged to 11.45.
But they will take a charge back to 12 volts without issue or damaging the batteries.
My thought is if a wet cell is discharged to 11.45 the cells will be damaged and the battery will suffer from being discharged that much.
not sure what LVD means ?

[full_mosey]

Lantley wrote:

What you are really showing is the ability of AGM's vs. wet cell.
AGM can rebound from 11.45 without issue. I think running your typical wet cell at 11.45 may do damage?

It is not the rebound that I believe is the issue.

I don't believe your typical 220AHs of flooded 2 x GC 6Vs will hold the 11.45V like the AGM does, but will LVD instead. More weight, more footprint/space; less performance.

HTH;
John

[Lantley]

full_mosey wrote:

Lantley wrote:

Essentially I have a 1100 watt inverter to power my entertainment gear. I don't plan to use inverter to power anything more.
I don't really have room for a large battery bank.
I had to chuckle at your can't have too much inverter comment.
...
Honestly I consider my inverter usage a test. If it works well I can see increasing my battery storage, but for now I'm trying to gauge how well the stock setup works.

Just a FYI, you don't need a large battery bank to run a large inverter. I just prepared a lunch and two days leftovers of beef-stroganoff over rice.

I used a 1300W induction stove top and consumed 350 Watt-hours of 120VAC from a 2200W inverter. Care to guess the size of the battery bank?

How about a single 135AH AGM. The lowest Volts were 11.45, nowhere near the 10.5V low Voltage disconnect(LVD) of the inverter.

I don't have a large RV.

HTH;
John

What you are really showing is the ability of AGM's vs. wet cell.
AGM can rebound from 11.45 without issue. I think running your typical wet cell at 11.45 may do damage?

[pianotuna]

Hi John,

Nice data thanks for sharing it. So, about 25% of the total capacity of the battery?

Don't try that with a flooded jar, it may clobber it.

[full_mosey]

Lantley wrote:

Essentially I have a 1100 watt inverter to power my entertainment gear. I don't plan to use inverter to power anything more.
I don't really have room for a large battery bank.
I had to chuckle at your can't have too much inverter comment.
...
Honestly I consider my inverter usage a test. If it works well I can see increasing my battery storage, but for now I'm trying to gauge how well the stock setup works.

Just a FYI, you don't need a large battery bank to run a large inverter. I just prepared a lunch and two days leftovers of beef-stroganoff over rice.

I used a 1300W induction stove top and consumed 350 Watt-hours of 120VAC from a 2200W inverter. Care to guess the size of the battery bank?

How about a single 135AH AGM. The lowest Volts were 11.45, nowhere near the 10.5V low Voltage disconnect(LVD) of the inverter.

I don't have a large RV.

HTH;
John

[CA_Traveler]

nayther wrote:

CA Traveler wrote:
Have you considered a different sat receiver that doesn't lose it's settings and hence turn off the power when not in use?

Not aware of any that do that and are Dish, not Direct.

That implies that with every utility glitch Dish users have to setup the receiver again. And no DVR recording until they do. I would think that is a significant marketing concern.

I turn off all AC to my TV and DTV equipment when not in use and boon docking. The HR44 receiver (and earlier models) is ready to go in 3 minutes with all settings retained.

[nayther]

CA Traveler wrote:
Have you considered a different sat receiver that doesn't lose it's settings and hence turn off the power when not in use?

Not aware of any that do that and are Dish, not Direct.

[Lantley]

Thanks. Time2roll and Pianotuna You guys confirmed my thinking. I will disconnect cable when not in use.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

It depends. I had one inexpensive inverter where the draw was 600 ma. Of course that is a way to make it "look small". But in fact it works out to about 15 amp-hours per day.

I have a disconnect switch on the dc lines to the inverter.

Lantley wrote:
On the subject of idle draw. When my inverter is off. The power button in the off position There are no lights on inverter are illuminated. I assume the inverter is drawing zero volts from the battery. I assume the inverter is not creating any parasitic draws off the battery.

[time2roll]

Lantley wrote:
On the subject of idle draw. When my inverter is off. The power button in the off position There are no lights on inverter are illuminated. I assume the inverter is drawing zero volts from the battery. I assume the inverter is not creating any parasitic draws off the battery.

Probably very small like a few milliamps. Off is fine while in use but for storage with no power I would disconnect a main cable.

[Lantley]

On the subject of idle draw. When my inverter is off. The power button in the off position There are no lights on inverter are illuminated. I assume the inverter is drawing zero volts from the battery. I assume the inverter is not creating any parasitic draws off the battery.

[westend]

Lantley wrote:

westend wrote:
You can really never have too much inverter. Yes, running a smaller one may be more efficient (depends on function of inverters). I am slowly moving towards installing a 2000W inverter and making it a seamless transition to the whole cabin by using a transfer switch. I now have a 1000W inverter with two dedicated circuits and it meets my needs. All of my entertainment gear is 120V.

Essentially I have a 1100 watt inverter to power my entertainment gear. I don't plan to use inverter to power anything more.
I don't really have room for a large battery bank.
I had to chuckle at your can't have too much inverter comment.
I feel like the guy with the 1/2 ton truck proclaiming all is well and there is no need to upgrade to a bigger truck. I'm only towing/powering my TV and DVD player. I don't need the dually...LOL.
Honestly I consider my inverter usage a test. If it works well I can see increasing my battery storage, but for now I'm trying to gauge how well the stock setup works.
You guys with inverter knowledge/experience may already realize I'm trying to tow a fiver with a Ranger, but I'm learning

Well, with most better inverters, the difference in idle draw between say, a 2000W inverter and a 1000W inverter is minimal. One may also be more efiicient in the AC conversion but that too, is relatively minimal. The advantage, then, becomes convenience. Even if I never use 2000W of draw, the inverter is capable of getting to a point that is more power than a smaller one. If an automatic transfer switch is used, there is more convenience. So really, it is about convenience while meeting needs.

If you find yourself in a place where a bigger inverter is needed and you wish to add batteries, there always seems to be a spot where more can be added. With a 5'er, that might be racking batteries at different levels or in different configuration with AGM's. FWIW, I currently have 5 batteries and all of them are inside the cabin. I have space for more on the tongue or inside frame rails using the Totklift kit I have, as well as more space inside. My efforts to keep them inside involved weight ditribution, mainly, but I also benefit from temperature and the short distances to the 12V distro panel.

Good luck to all those using inverters, it is a neat trick!