The confounding 3/4 ton truck...

[Mickeyfan0805]

Let me start by saying I do not have, nor am I currently in the market for, a truck. So, I have no horse in this race! I am, however, genuinely curious in looking for 'reliably sourced' information on payload ratings for 3/4 trucks.

There is a constant argument on the ceaseless 'What can I tow?' threads in which people claim that individuals should ignore the published ratings of their 3/4 ton trucks and go by axle and tire ratings instead. People make claims about what is a legal issue, what is a DOT issue, what is a vehicle classification issue, etc...

What I haven't seen, however, is reliably sourced information that is something other than one person or another's opinion on the matter.

So, I'm genuinely curious and asking. Can anyone point me to a reliable source that can explain these issues and parse the considerations? Knowing that any rating is limited by the weakest link in the chain, is there someone that can express how to know which elements should be considered? I understand the reasons for the arguments people make in these questions, but I've never seen anything but personal opinions. I'm just wondering if there is more definitive information out there.

[fla-gypsy]

I decided to follow the manufacturers recommendations and comply with all applicable local/state/federal laws and just not worry about any of it anymore.

[Grit_dog]

Cmon guys. Don’t let this thread die!
We’re only at 6 pages and the common sense vs weight cop door sticker junkies conversations were just getting going!

[Jarlaxle]

Grit dog wrote:
OH my shtballs!!!
This is what the OP just said....no opinions. Seems the opinions come from the weight cops!
Fact, 2500vs 3500.
Same frame
Same drive train, including...
Same axles
Same brakes
Same wheels
Same tires
Can even get them the same color!
The one common thing that is different is how heavy the rear springs are but that's easily rectified.
Those are the facts.
Yes some trucks have a bit different features. Heavy duty trans or coil sprung rear end but.....
It's only a difficult concept for the non believers....Lol!

Depends on the truck. Sometimes, a 2500 has a lighter rear axle or spring pack than a 3500. Sometimes...the only difference is the sticker!

[Grit_dog]

^Lol, right?






Hey, will my truck carry _______??

[mtofell1]

What happened? Did the last payload thread fall off the first page so we had to start another?

[blt2ski]

troubledwaters wrote:

FlimFlamJIM wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:
I don't need the 2014 Ford Fleet Specs, I have the more up to date 2017 and 2018 specs. But the whole point (which apparently needs repeating), all of the payload doesn't go on the rear axle.

LOL....Your reading and comprehending skills need to be addressed.
Let me repent one more time for you....I said "when all the payload is placed in the bed". And I gave numbers to show how gvwr based payloads can overload the trucks rear axle.
I also have looked at Fords newest fleet specs up to 2018 and just like the 2014 models some 2018 F150 trucks can be overload "when all the gvwr based payload is placed in the bed".

Anyways.... just another reason to use RAWR for how much payload the truck can carry in the bed.

Next time you see a truck with all the payload in the bed, please get me a picture. I'd like to see how the driver managed to steer the thing sitting on top of 3000 lbs of payload in the bed of the truck.

And Now I return you to the Real World of trucks and towing.

Very easy to overload an RA with load in the bed! We Chhris mention with pics of in bed campers. If I put a 3000 lb pallet in the back 4' of pickup, or worst yet, Transit ext body van! I pull weight from front axle to rear! Been there done that!
Or put a heavy ball/Intel hitch weight behind the axle, again, not hard to overload an RA.
I've also weighed my navistar dump truck, 5900 on front. 5700 rear empty. Me and my 200+ lb body. 5900 front! 5900+ lbs on rest. With me sitting in drivers seat! Even tho I am only 3-4' behind FA, ALL of my weight went to the RA!
Those body building guides are pretty accurate as to how much weight, water level in a bed will go to the front and rear axles. Rarely, do I see more then 30% going to the front. Usually only 10-20%. That's been my experience hauling towing commercially for 35+ years.

Marty

[Walaby]

I tend to subscribe to the RAWR calculation vice GVWR calculation. However, I suspect/believe there are limits to that.

For example, my Ram 2500 weights with just me as passenger is 7900 lbs. 4820 front axle weight, and 3080 rear axle weight. My RAWR is 6500. So, that, in theory, would mean I could have 3420 lb pin weight (if I went to max RAWR).

So, lets say I go with 3000lb pin weight, giving myself a 500 lb buffer. Assuming pin weight is 20% of 5er total weight, that means I could pull a 15000 lb fiver. Im not sure I'd want to go that high with a 3/4 ton pickup.

I don't think I would hesitate with a 10K-12K 5er, maybe 13K depending on passengers (or not) even though it would exceed my payload. Not sure I'd want to go higher than that.

Mike

[JIMNLIN]

waters wrote:
FlimFlamJIM wrote:

Flim flam Jim ?? Ouch..
Good one.

[Me_Again]

Lets talk about truck campers. A 8' cabover camper in a 8' bed will add weight to the front axle. Now replace that with a 11' cabover camper and you will most likely reduce weight on the front axle.

[troubledwaters]

FlimFlamJIM wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:
I don't need the 2014 Ford Fleet Specs, I have the more up to date 2017 and 2018 specs. But the whole point (which apparently needs repeating), all of the payload doesn't go on the rear axle.

LOL....Your reading and comprehending skills need to be addressed.
Let me repent one more time for you....I said "when all the payload is placed in the bed". And I gave numbers to show how gvwr based payloads can overload the trucks rear axle.
I also have looked at Fords newest fleet specs up to 2018 and just like the 2014 models some 2018 F150 trucks can be overload "when all the gvwr based payload is placed in the bed".

Anyways.... just another reason to use RAWR for how much payload the truck can carry in the bed.

Next time you see a truck with all the payload in the bed, please get me a picture. I'd like to see how the driver managed to steer the thing sitting on top of 3000 lbs of payload in the bed of the truck.

And Now I return you to the Real World of trucks and towing.

[BenK]

waters wrote:
I don't need the 2014 Ford Fleet Specs, I have the more up to date 2017 and 2018 specs. But the whole point (which apparently needs repeating), all of the payload doesn't go on the rear axle.

Correct...not *ALL*...but...*MOST* of it does go on most all TV's rear axle.

This is one thread on that topic...take side view of any TV...mid point between the wheel base is the generally the rear edge of the drivers door...




Another can my truck pull this thread...

BenK wrote:
Agree with Jimnlin...most all TV's loading on the vehicle is behind the mid point of the wheel base. Normally behind the driver door's rear edge, but the OP has a crew, so an extra row of seats...here is an Internet pic just found of a 2018 F150 Crew 4x4



Notice that the second row is BEHIND the mid point of this teeter-totter weighting of 'this' TV...most of the added, onboard weight will be on the rear axle side of that teeter-totter mid point

Yes, the WD Hitch system does WD some of the weight back onto the trailer tongue and to the TV's front axle, but the majority of that weight remains on the TV's rear axle

Why higher class TV's all have +6K RGVWR...it for that reason...most of the weight on most any TV is carried on the rear axle assembly

Congratulate this OP, as *ALL* of the folks have come across who lease their TV's DO NOT take care to check out the weights...they just load up and drive it...as they know they will NOT suffer the longevity issues with overloading...knowing only the next owner(s) will or might suffer their consumption of the design margins...

[JIMNLIN]

waters wrote:
I don't need the 2014 Ford Fleet Specs, I have the more up to date 2017 and 2018 specs. But the whole point (which apparently needs repeating), all of the payload doesn't go on the rear axle.

LOL....Your reading and comprehending skills need to be addressed.
Let me repent one more time for you....I said "when all the payload is placed in the bed". And I gave numbers to show how gvwr based payloads can overload the trucks rear axle.
I also have looked at Fords newest fleet specs up to 2018 and just like the 2014 models some 2018 F150 trucks can be overload "when all the gvwr based payload is placed in the bed".

Anyways.... just another reason to use RAWR for how much payload the truck can carry in the bed.

[MFL]

Me Again wrote:
Going camping sounds great. We are headed to Tombstone this week for a 4 day shake down trip. Got the trailer out of storage and putting things back in it.

Hey Chris, no need for shakedown trip, that looks like a good spot pictured. Lots of blue sky, nice covered patio, good FW parking, and looks like a peaceful area. 🙂

Jerry

[ShinerBock]

troubledwaters wrote:
I don't need the 2014 Ford Fleet Specs, I have the more up to date 2017 and 2018 specs. But the whole point (which apparently needs repeating), all of the payload doesn't go on the rear axle.

This is correct. The weight between the axles is distributed to both axles. Weight directly in the center of gravity between the axles is split 50/50 and weight before or after this will be split accordingly. Hence the reason why some long wheel base trucks are rated to carry more weight even though they have the same axle ratings as the short wheel base trucks.

Something like this...

axle|--90/10--80/20--70/30--60/40--(50/50)--40/60--30/70--20/80--10/90--|axle