What is the weak link for Chevy max tow ratings?

[Viperpoker]

The max tow ratings for a F350 Ford are about 32,000. For a Ram 3500 they are about 31,000. For a Silverado 3500,they are about 23,000. That is 4.5 tons less than a Ford and 4 tons less than a Ram. What is causing such a low rating? Is it engine, transmission, differential, frame, brakes, suspension? Or a combination of some of those? I have a 42 foot fifth wheel, thinking about a 44 foot toy hauler that would be heavily loaded, and looking to get a new truck, and Chevy is not even an option. Just trying to understand what is causing them to be so far behind. Have no brand loyalty, have owned all three in the past, just looking for most capability at best price.

[Viperpoker]

These are my thoughts on why it would be better if Ram didn’t focus so much on water pumps, and would instead make more powerful, capable trucks.


Stupidity. Just pissing match bragging rights by fanboys who are the types of people who like to say "my water pump is better" to help them get through life and will probably never own the truck configuration or licence needed to pump that much water.


I don't need to say mine is rated to pump some exorbitant amount of water that I will never need to make me feel better about what I drive. I am not a one brand only fanboy to care about such things.

I just think it is a little ridiculous and wonder when enough will be enough. 40 months, 50 months, 60 months? Is there a point where these knuckle head fanboys who salivate at these numbers, for how long a water pump must last.

I really don't think you guys understand how manufacturing and COGM works.

because a few fanboys want more than they will ever need just to say their brand has better water pumps.

[ShinerBock]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"So you see, the more time, money and manpower they devote to these pissing matches, the more it likely hurts the rest of the truck."

In YOUR opinion.

Possibly a bad water pump depending on what brand was installed on your Cummins engine. Is that RAM's fault?

Bottom line there were some bad pumps and they replaced them.

I was just using the water pump as one simple example of many. Would you like me to use another recall out of the 10 my brother and I got? Just got a new one last week that they says they don't have a solution for.

To me it's all like water running off a Duck's back!!!

Of course because it is your favorite brand. However, I don't you would look at it the same if it were a Ford or GM.

[Cummins12V98]

Well another good thread that's going to get closed!

[Cummins12V98]

ShinerBock wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"So you see, the more time, money and manpower they devote to these pissing matches, the more it likely hurts the rest of the truck."

In YOUR opinion.

Possibly a bad water pump depending on what brand was installed on your Cummins engine. Is that RAM's fault?

Bottom line there were some bad pumps and they replaced them.

I was just using the water pump as one simple example of many. Would you like me to use another recall out of the 10 my brother and I got? Just got a new one last week that they says they don't have a solution for.

To me it's all like water running off a Duck's back!!!

[ShinerBock]

mich800 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:


You keep insinuating that I do not want the trucks to improve which is false as I have stated multiple times. You guys are just getting mad because I feel that if a company is having so many quality issues ,which Ram clearly is with so many recalls, more money and time should go into fixing that and improving reliability of new models before trying to win a pissing match tow battle especially when their current ratings of 31k covers 99.999999999999999999999% of their customers.

There is fine line between Ram(and other makes) improving these trucks and their ratings to meet customer demand versus doing so just to win "best in class". One actually benefits customers, the other just adds unnecessary cost to every truck with no real ROI since very few customers will actually buy these truck configurations. I can see if there was a big market for these ratings, but there isn't so the rest of us have to bear the cost of these pissing matches with a higher cost truck that you have to take back to the dealer every other month due to recalls.

It is senseless for any manufacturer of any product to spend so much time and money on something that less that .1% of their customers will actually buy and will increase the cost of their product when they are having reliability issues with excising product. That is how companies go bankrupt and need bailouts.

I agree they (all manufactures) need to do both. Allowing poor quality will ultimately reduce innovation and new performance/options as the money that could be spend on R&D will get diverted to recalls and repairs. Ram has two recalls out right now that do not inspire confidence. Failing steering adjusters on the HD's and the adjustable pedals on the 1500's. I think back on how many times I have adjusted the pedals while driving (not recommended by the mfg). That would sure be a pucker moment if the brake pedal fell off doing that.

Yeah, and sadly there is already reported to be one injury and eight accidents due to the steering recall. What makes maters worse for me is my dealer says they don't even have the parts to fix it and probably won't for a while. That doesn't instill confidence in a truck that I purchased for its reliability. I will dump an unreliable brand even if it has the highest tow rating or higher power ratings.

[ShinerBock]

Viperpoker wrote:


Now look who doesn’t understand. I was just referring to your arrogant attitude and coming across as a total a$$, with anyone who disagrees with you. You can believe what you want without insulting everyone with a different opinion. You probably should buy that Toyota. Or apply for CEO of Ram so you can stop them from being so stupid. And Ram is not “best in class”. Ford is today, and GM looks to be tomorrow, unless Ford has a pissing contest and beats them.

How you perceive my attitude is not a fault on my part. I was not insulting your opinion with pictures of model T's with off base passive aggressive comments, that was you. I am just reinstating my opinion every time you guys keep rebutting it. If you don't like it, then stop quoting me and stop making the passive aggressive comment meant towards me. Until then, I will keep responding back at what is directed at me.

[Viperpoker]

ShinerBock wrote:

Viperpoker wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Viperpoker wrote:
Just think how great it would be if they had just focused on making all of the parts more reliable and higher quality on this truck, instead of useless/crazy/unneeded performance improvements. It would be awesome!!

If that is what you get out of what am saying then I am afraid you aren't fully understanding what I am saying and/or how developing a product works.

I like the way you point out that people don't understand your wisdom or the development process.. I understand you very well, just happen to disagree, and I don't have to throw around terms like, stupid, stupidity, ridiculous, fanboy, pissing match, knuckleheads, or"mine is better" to help them get through life. No one has to buy one of these trucks (and we were talking about Chevy's, not Rams) If someone doesn't like the new trucks, they can buy a used one from a few years ago. Or they can buy a Toyota, if you think they have the quality advantage. You may have to get a smaller RV or a trailer, but it is an option.

If anyone sounds like a fanboy, you appear to only consider Rams. I have had all three, and would have no problem buying any of them again. If I think one is ahead of the others in multiple categories, including price, performance, reliability, resell, etc, I would buy it. Some people like work trucks, others like every bell and whistle there is. More power to them. Not gonna throw out insulting terms for any of their decisions.

GM, Ford, and Ram are all in competition, and will do whatever they think will give them an edge in the market place. Sometimes they make good calls, sometimes not, but if they screw the pooch too bad, the market will punish them.

Here are some of your greatest hits from this thread, for those idiots who disagree with you.



Stupidity. Just pissing match bragging rights by fanboys who are the types of people who like to say "mine is better" to help them get through life and will probably never own the truck configuration or licence needed to tow that much.


I don't need to say mine is rated to tow some exorbitant amount that I will never tow to make me feel better about what I drive. I am not a one brand only fanboy to care about such things.

I just think it is a little ridiculous and wonder when enough will be enough. 40k, 50k 60k? Is there a point where these knuckle head fanboys who salivate at these numbers

I really don't think you guys understand how manufacturing and COGM works.

because a few fanboys want more than they will ever need just to say their brand is bette

You keep insinuating that I do not want the trucks to improve which is false as I have stated multiple times. You guys are just getting mad because I feel that if a company is having so many quality issues ,which Ram clearly is with so many recalls, more money and time should go into fixing that and improving reliability of new models before trying to win a pissing match tow battle especially when their current ratings of 31k covers 99.999999999999999999999% of their customers.

There is fine line between Ram(and other makes) improving these trucks and their ratings to meet customer demand versus doing so just to win "best in class". One actually benefits customers, the other just adds unnecessary cost to every truck with no real ROI since very few customers will actually buy these truck configurations. I can see if there was a big market for these ratings, but there isn't so the rest of us have to bear the cost of these pissing matches with a higher cost truck that you have to take back to the dealer every other month due to recalls.

Now look who doesn’t understand. I was just referring to your arrogant attitude and coming across as a total a$$, with anyone who disagrees with you. You can believe what you want without insulting everyone with a different opinion. You probably should buy that Toyota. Or apply for CEO of Ram so you can stop them from being so stupid. And Ram is not “best in class”. Ford is today, and GM looks to be tomorrow, unless Ford has a pissing contest and beats them.

[mich800]

ShinerBock wrote:


You keep insinuating that I do not want the trucks to improve which is false as I have stated multiple times. You guys are just getting mad because I feel that if a company is having so many quality issues ,which Ram clearly is with so many recalls, more money and time should go into fixing that and improving reliability of new models before trying to win a pissing match tow battle especially when their current ratings of 31k covers 99.999999999999999999999% of their customers.

There is fine line between Ram(and other makes) improving these trucks and their ratings to meet customer demand versus doing so just to win "best in class". One actually benefits customers, the other just adds unnecessary cost to every truck with no real ROI since very few customers will actually buy these truck configurations. I can see if there was a big market for these ratings, but there isn't so the rest of us have to bear the cost of these pissing matches with a higher cost truck that you have to take back to the dealer every other month due to recalls.

It is senseless for any manufacturer of any product to spend so much time and money on something that less that .1% of their customers will actually buy and will increase the cost of their product when they are having reliability issues with excising product. That is how companies go bankrupt and need bailouts.

I agree they (all manufactures) need to do both. Allowing poor quality will ultimately reduce innovation and new performance/options as the money that could be spend on R&D will get diverted to recalls and repairs. Ram has two recalls out right now that do not inspire confidence. Failing steering adjusters on the HD's and the adjustable pedals on the 1500's. I think back on how many times I have adjusted the pedals while driving (not recommended by the mfg). That would sure be a pucker moment if the brake pedal fell off doing that.

[ShinerBock]

Viperpoker wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Viperpoker wrote:
Just think how great it would be if they had just focused on making all of the parts more reliable and higher quality on this truck, instead of useless/crazy/unneeded performance improvements. It would be awesome!!

If that is what you get out of what am saying then I am afraid you aren't fully understanding what I am saying and/or how developing a product works.

I like the way you point out that people don't understand your wisdom or the development process.. I understand you very well, just happen to disagree, and I don't have to throw around terms like, stupid, stupidity, ridiculous, fanboy, pissing match, knuckleheads, or"mine is better" to help them get through life. No one has to buy one of these trucks (and we were talking about Chevy's, not Rams) If someone doesn't like the new trucks, they can buy a used one from a few years ago. Or they can buy a Toyota, if you think they have the quality advantage. You may have to get a smaller RV or a trailer, but it is an option.

If anyone sounds like a fanboy, you appear to only consider Rams. I have had all three, and would have no problem buying any of them again. If I think one is ahead of the others in multiple categories, including price, performance, reliability, resell, etc, I would buy it. Some people like work trucks, others like every bell and whistle there is. More power to them. Not gonna throw out insulting terms for any of their decisions.

GM, Ford, and Ram are all in competition, and will do whatever they think will give them an edge in the market place. Sometimes they make good calls, sometimes not, but if they screw the pooch too bad, the market will punish them.

Here are some of your greatest hits from this thread, for those idiots who disagree with you.



Stupidity. Just pissing match bragging rights by fanboys who are the types of people who like to say "mine is better" to help them get through life and will probably never own the truck configuration or licence needed to tow that much.


I don't need to say mine is rated to tow some exorbitant amount that I will never tow to make me feel better about what I drive. I am not a one brand only fanboy to care about such things.

I just think it is a little ridiculous and wonder when enough will be enough. 40k, 50k 60k? Is there a point where these knuckle head fanboys who salivate at these numbers

I really don't think you guys understand how manufacturing and COGM works.

because a few fanboys want more than they will ever need just to say their brand is bette

You keep insinuating that I do not want the trucks to improve which is false as I have stated multiple times. You guys are just getting mad because I feel that if a company is having so many quality issues ,which Ram clearly is with so many recalls, more money and time should go into fixing that and improving reliability of new models before trying to win a pissing match tow battle especially when their current ratings of 31k covers 99.999999999999999999999% of their customers.

There is fine line between Ram(and other makes) improving these trucks and their ratings to meet customer demand versus doing so just to win "best in class". One actually benefits customers, the other just adds unnecessary cost to every truck with no real ROI since very few customers will actually buy these truck configurations. I can see if there was a big market for these ratings, but there isn't so the rest of us have to bear the cost of these pissing matches with a higher cost truck that you have to take back to the dealer every other month due to recalls.

It is senseless for any manufacturer of any product to spend so much time and money on something that less that .1% of their customers will actually buy and will unnecessarily increase the cost of their product to the other 99.9% of their customers when they are having reliability issues with their existing product. That is how companies go bankrupt and need bailouts.

[Viperpoker]

ShinerBock wrote:

Viperpoker wrote:
Just think how great it would be if they had just focused on making all of the parts more reliable and higher quality on this truck, instead of useless/crazy/unneeded performance improvements. It would be awesome!!

If that is what you get out of what am saying then I am afraid you aren't fully understanding what I am saying and/or how developing a product works.

I like the way you point out that people don't understand your wisdom or the development process.. I understand you very well, just happen to disagree, and I don't have to throw around terms like, stupid, stupidity, ridiculous, fanboy, pissing match, knuckleheads, or"mine is better" to help them get through life. No one has to buy one of these trucks (and we were talking about Chevy's, not Rams) If someone doesn't like the new trucks, they can buy a used one from a few years ago. Or they can buy a Toyota, if you think they have the quality advantage. You may have to get a smaller RV or a trailer, but it is an option.

If anyone sounds like a fanboy, you appear to only consider Rams. I have had all three, and would have no problem buying any of them again. If I think one is ahead of the others in multiple categories, including price, performance, reliability, resell, etc, I would buy it. Some people like work trucks, others like every bell and whistle there is. More power to them. Not gonna throw out insulting terms for any of their decisions.

GM, Ford, and Ram are all in competition, and will do whatever they think will give them an edge in the market place. Sometimes they make good calls, sometimes not, but if they screw the pooch too bad, the market will punish them.

Here are some of your greatest hits from this thread, for those idiots who disagree with you.



Stupidity. Just pissing match bragging rights by fanboys who are the types of people who like to say "mine is better" to help them get through life and will probably never own the truck configuration or licence needed to tow that much.


I don't need to say mine is rated to tow some exorbitant amount that I will never tow to make me feel better about what I drive. I am not a one brand only fanboy to care about such things.

I just think it is a little ridiculous and wonder when enough will be enough. 40k, 50k 60k? Is there a point where these knuckle head fanboys who salivate at these numbers

I really don't think you guys understand how manufacturing and COGM works.

because a few fanboys want more than they will ever need just to say their brand is bette

[ShinerBock]

Viperpoker wrote:
Just think how great it would be if they had just focused on making all of the parts more reliable and higher quality on this truck, instead of useless/crazy/unneeded performance improvements. It would be awesome!!

If that is what you get out of what am saying then I am afraid you aren't fully understanding what I am saying and/or how developing a product works.

[ShinerBock]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"So you see, the more time, money and manpower they devote to these pissing matches, the more it likely hurts the rest of the truck."

In YOUR opinion.

Possibly a bad water pump depending on what brand was installed on your Cummins engine. Is that RAM's fault?

Bottom line there were some bad pumps and they replaced them.

I was just using the water pump as one simple example of many. Would you like me to use another recall out of the 10 my brother and I got? Just got a new one last week that they says they don't have a solution for.

[ShinerBock]

ExxWhy wrote:


This is way out of my knowledge base. You are telling me that larger medium duty class trucks (4500/5500/6500) have stricter emission standards than consumer grade (2500/3500) pickup trucks? Makes no sense to me, but if that is what comes from the government it wouldn't shock me. Can you enlighten us on that?

I completely disagree with the last sentence. More capable does not equate to less reliable, just the opposite IMO.

Yes, medium duty class 4500/5500/6500 and cab & chassis 3500's have different emissions certifications than a complete pick up truck. Complete pickups go through a chassis dyno certification and incomplete vehicles go through a engine dyno certification for emissions that also differ based on the GVWR of the truck. They are de-rated based on the on the limit of each GVWR and/or purposely derated by the manufacturer to sell a higher power package.

That is the reason why a Ram 3500 CTD pickup has a max of 385/950, but the 3500 cab & chassis max's out at 325/750. Both have different emissions certifications dictating their power levels.

[Viperpoker]

Viperpoker wrote:
Just think how great it would be if they had just focused on making all of the parts more reliable and higher quality on this truck, instead of useless/crazy/unneeded performance improvements. It would be awesome!!

I bet the water pump would have been world class!!