Thinking about buying Class C

[flipper2222]

We are considering buying a Class C. We have a 5th wheel Flagstaff classic super lite 26-28ft. depending on how you measure. We have loved the Forest River RV's, but we are having problems finding the right fit. We will not buy a Thor or Jayco(bad issues with these in the past) We have found one or two that are an options, but I don't want to look back see there were better option. We have to have one that does not have a folding bed, we have to change out the mattress every time we buy. No longer than 30 ft.That is our limit to park in our drive. I want some potty space. I hate to be on the potty and smash my face to pick up a lost roll of TP. I am 5'3 and tired of getting"bulldog face" slamming into the potty door. Right now the Sunseeker 2860DS looks like it would be "OK", but the cooking space is tiny.
Does anyone have any suggestions we should look at before pulling the trigger?

[ron_dittmer]

flipper2222,

This is a lot to read through but you may find it helpful. The chassis specs I post at the end with regards to capability and power, might need a little updating.

Ron
_____________________________________________________________

New, used, or well used, when shopping for a conventional class B+ or C, the most important consideration is how it is constructed. This post outlines construction methods which are most affordable and methods that cost more, but are built to hold up much better to the elements and also the punishment of the road.

Some motor home manufactures offer different levels of quality through their various model lines. Instead of providing a list of brands to consider, it is best to identify what "Better" is.

When shopping for a motor home, don't get distracted with "Eye Candy" and "Square Footage". You want to pay close attention to how the house is constructed. Water infiltration is the number one killer of motor homes, rotting them away long before anything is worn out. Once water gets inside, it is like termites. By the time you realize there is a problem, a lot of damage has already occurred. Also consider that mold & mildew can grow inside the walls which then you have a health hazard. My advise focuses on identifying a reliably well sealed motor home.

#1 BEST (Very Expensive, Can Be 1.5 times the cost of Second Best)
NO structural seam work. The brand Coach House is a fine example. It is seamless, made from a mold. The only places where water can leak is cutouts for windows, entry door, roof-top vents & a/c unit, storage compartments & maintenance access, all of which are in areas of very low stress. Because they have a seamless shell, these motor homes have a limited selection of sizes.

#2 SECOND BEST
Common, Affordable, & comes in Many Sizes so this is my main focus
I own an example of this type. My Rig Here manufactured by Phoenix USA.
Made in sections, but assembled in a way that greatly reduces the threat of water damage. Here are the good things you want to look for.

a) Structural Seams Away From Corners
When a motor home is driven, the house bounces, resonates, shakes, and leans countless times, representing a endless series of earthquakes. Corner seams see greater stresses than seams located elsewhere. Corner seams are more easily split, especially when the caulk gets brittle with age & exposure to the sun. One extremely bad bump in the road can instantly breach a corner seam. Seams hold up much better when they are brought in from the corners in lesser stressed areas.

b) A Seamless Over-The-Van Front Cap
A huge bed above the van’s roof is the most vulnerable area of a motor home. No matter how well they are made, that long frontal over-hang resonates when the RV is driven making it common for seams to split there, most troublesome with age & exposure to the elements. HERE is an example, one of many water-damage threads I have read. Scroll down in that thread to see pictures of the real damage.

The small front aerodynamic cap of a B+ design HERE eliminates the overhang which eliminates most of the resonation, along with most seam work.

There are a few conventional “C” Designs (big over-van bed) where that area is seamless. If you absolutely must have that huge bed, then look for a seamless bucket-like design. The Itasca Navion Here is a fine example. Some manufactures as of late offer a partial bucket design with fewer seams located in less-stressed areas. Some manufacture models like the Minnie Winnie and the Nexus Phantom utilize a compromising partial bucket design, making it a better choice compared to a fully seamed cab-over bed.

If you plan to accommodate more than 2 people, having that large extra cab-over bed will be extremely useful.

c) A Crowned Roof
Rain and snow melt runs off a crowned roof. A flat roof will sag over time, then water puddles around heavy roof-top items like the a/c unit. Water eventually finds it's way inside after gaskets & caulk have degraded from age, sun, and change in seasons.

d) Rolled-Over-The-Edge seamless Fiberglass Roof Sheathing
A single sheet of fiberglass as shown HERE that rolls over the right & left sides of the roof, down to the wall. The overlapping of fiberglass to the wall provides a good water seal and the fiberglass sheathing holds up better than roofs made of sheet rubber or thin plastic called TPO, which require more attention to keep your RV well protected.

e) A Five Sided Rear Wall Cap
A five sided back wall moves the seams around to the sides to areas of much less stress as seen HERE. The rear wall resembles a shallow rectangular cooking pan standing on it's side. Like the example, some rear wall sections are constructed with an integrated spare tire compartment and rear storage compartment. Not only are they convenience features, but that rear wall/cap offers a solid double-wall for exceptional strength which is more resistant to flexing the adjoining seam work. It helps in keeping the house together.

Don't be fooled. There are a select few manufactures who add rear wall sectional styling pieces over an entry level rear corner seam design which gives the appearance of a 5-sided pan design. You can easily tell by noting the sections & seams between them and the flat back wall that remains exposed.

Bigger Will Be Weaker
The size & floor plan you select MUST FIRST meet your needs before this consideration.
The bigger the house, the weaker the structure will be. Consider two cardboard boxes made from the exact same corrugated material. The smaller box would naturally be stronger. It will be more resistant to bending, twisting, and other types of flexing. So if you are on the fence between models, the smaller one will be your stronger choice.

Potentially Troublesome Construction
Entry level motor homes are made with seams in corners and finished off with trim, including the massive cab-over bed. Their roof is flat and finished with rubber or TPO. They are most affordable, and come in all sizes. HERE is one such example. If considering this construction type, keep in-mind they require more regular care with bi-annual inspections. Plan to use a caulking gun now and then. When buying a used one, consider that you really don't know how well the previous owner maintained it. Buying new or used, that construction method will be counting on you to be a good non-neglectful owner.

There are also the rare exception of the Lazy Daze which has seam work in the corners, but the substructure and sealing method is of the highest quality that it holds up like a seamless body. It's excellent sectional construction methods are not commonly found in other brands. I am no expert on this, but I'd give it a #1.5 Almost Like Best

About The Chassis
The most popular is the Ford E350 and E450 with the V10 engine. The Sprinter diesel is a popular alternative to the E350 in the smaller sizes. Also within this past year is the recent introduction of the Ford Transit. The GM 3500 & 4500 chassis are not popular but are a very good choice for the right application. Any of the chassis mentioned made since 1998 are real good, new or used. If you plan to tow a car or heavy trailer, be aware that the Sprinter & Transit will be least powered. People who tow with them naturally take it slower.

If considering a current-day “small” class B+ or C motor home, here is a comparison between the two current main chassis contenders, the Sprinter with the V6 diesel engine and the Ford E350 with the V10 gasoline engine.

Advantages Of The Mercedes Sprinter With Diesel Engine
- Offers a 35%-50% improvement in fuel economy over the Ford-V10, when both are loaded and driven identically.
- More ergonomic driver compartment with more leg room.
- Comfort continues with a car-like feel & quiet ride.
- A grander view out the windshield
- Made by Mercedes which people are attracted to.

Advantages Of The Ford E350 with V10 Engine
- Given identical motor homes both brand and model, the Ford is around $13,000 MSRP cheaper
- The Ford V10 engine has 50% more horse power and torque
- The Ford E350 chassis handles 1430 pounds more weight.
- The E350 is able to tow a heavier load.
- The E350 rear axle is significantly wider which translates to better stability.
- In most places traveled, gasoline costs less than diesel fuel
- The Sprinter diesel has limited mechanical service shops around North America
- The Sprinter diesel is typically outfitted with a propane generator. Propane is a critical fuel for RV operations, and generally needs to be rationed when dry camping.
- This Next Point Is Debatable But Still Worth Noting....The V6 Sprinter diesel engine is not allowed to idle for extended periods. This limitation is detrimental when you need a/c but there are generator restrictions, you are low on propane, or you have a mechanical failure with the generator or roof a/c. The Ford offers a great backup system. The V10 can safely idle for hours on end, heating, cooling, and battery charging, all valuable if you have a baby, pets, or health/respiratory issues.

You decide what your priorities are, and pick the appropriate chassis. There are some really sweet motor homes being built exclusively on the Sprinter chassis, such as the Winnebago Navion and View. Others like Phoenix USA build their model 2350 and 2400 on both the Sprinter and Ford E350. They will even build it on the heaviest duty E450 upon request for a nominal fee. People who request an E450 for a small motor home, tow heavier things like for example, a multi-horse trailer. You can even special order a E350 & E450 4x4.

There is so much cool stuff offered in recent years on the Sprinter and most recently on the new Ford Transit.

The Ford Transit Chassis
This chassis has the potential to dominate the class B+ & C motor home market in the smaller sizes. According to Ford's website, the Transit DRW chassis is offered in the 156", and 178" wheel base, and is rated as high as 10,360 GVWR. Ford offers a motor home package specific for the RV industry. It's diesel engine compares to the Sprinter in power and fuel economy, but is more affordable and is easily serviced at Ford service centers, just like the E350 & E450. The cab has a much lower stance than the Sprinter making it much more friendly to get into and out from for people in their later years. It's more like a mini-van rather than a standard van. The Transit's lower cab also offers roomier over-head bunks that are easier to access.

The Dodge Promaster 3500 Cut-Away Chassis
This front wheel drive chassis is another recent entry in the RV industry. I am concerned over it's lack of load capability as reflected with single free-wheeling rear wheels. I have been reading posts written by new Promaster RV owners stating they are over-weight with just two people, some personal effects and food. They say they can't carry water and never a 3rd person. I would not be comfortable with such a limited load range in a B+ or C. This chassis does seem to be a good option in the "B" motor home market.

The Chevy 3500 & 4500 Chassis
Unfortunately this chassis is not more popular, primarily because GM sort-of gave up on competing with the Ford E350 & E450. It offers more interior comfort than the Ford, but not as much as the Sprinter. It's power & weight ratings are a little less than their Ford counter-parts making them a great chassis for all but the heaviest of class Cs. They are also a little better on fuel consumption. One thing to keep in-mind, if you are counting inches in storing your rig, the Chevy is a little longer than the Ford by a number of inches which was critical for us with our garage as seen HERE with our Ford 2007 E350 rig. That could be the reason why the Chevy has a little more interior driver/passenger leg room.

The Ford E350 & E450
The majority of class B+ and C motor homes are built on one of these two chassis for a number of very good reasons. They have more power and load capability than the others. Ford approves outfitters to modify the chassis to increase or decrease the wheel base which supplies motor home companies a lot of design freedom. Ford has off-the-shelf components that work with the wheel base modification. So if you need a new drive shaft, fuel line, brake line, parking brake cable, wire harness, whatever, Ford has them available. Finally, the E350 and E450 chassis is competitively priced.

Engine Power Ratings of Ford, MB-Sprinter, Chevy, and Dodge
Ford E350 & E450 - 6.8L-V10, 305hp, 420ft
Ford Transit Diesel - 3.2L-I5, 185hp, 350ft
Mercedes Sprinter Diesel - 3.0L-V6, 188hp, 325ft
Chevy 3500 & 4500 - 6.0L-V8, 323hp, 373ft
Dodge Promaster - 3.6L-V6 (GVW only 9,300 pounds)

[flipper2222]

Good luck with the Thor. We had a Dutchman by Thor. We had a awful time with workmanship. They had cut the roof to short to meet the sides. We kept seeing a wet spot on the pavement or a rare drip. We looked high and low. We resealed everything. The moisture soaked in and rotted the whole back end, because it just soaked into the wood and foam insides before coming out. A Thor and a folding bed are 2 deal killers for us. We got a 2016 Forest River which we bought on impulse without thinking it through. It has been great, but though for us a Class C would work better. That is why I was asking for everyone's input. I don't want to make another mistake. Thanks for your thoughts.

[EdTheEdge]

I hope I'm not jinxing myself here but my Thor C has been relatively problem free. All problems were fixed by the dealer except for a bent fuel hose on the generator, before I picked it up. They tried to fix the fuel line but failed miserably so I had a local rv repair shop do that. It did cost $200 but it has worked flawlessly for almost 5 years now.... We love our HaRVey and use it at least twice a month. Ymmv.

[Cider]

Space is always an issue in an RV - with living and storage unless you want a larger unit. Also, if you have kids and pets, it becomes an even bigger issue. Where to keep a rig also a problem sometimes as neighbors, or HOA covenants may restrict how long or where you can park an RV along with city ordinances. Not play RV cop here - just things that can come into play with an RV kept at home. We downsized from a 31 foot 5th wheel to a Forest River Sunseeker MBS 2400R (rear bed and dinette slides). With the wife and I and a small dog, it works perfect for us and longest trip so far is a month. Bed has the sliding mattress (one half goes on top of the other when closed) and it was OK, but did put a tempupedic topper on it. 4 burner stove and large sink works well and plenty of space to move around. RV size is going to be predicated on how much space yo want / need, along with how much you want to spend. Often you can find one yer old used MBS models for around $75K. Class B vans, are basically that - vans modified for a camera but offer very little space or cargo capacity. Class A's - well too big for me but that;'s just me as most places we like to go generally have a 27 to 29 foot limit in NF and BLM areas. If you are going to stay in RV parks mainly, size is not a limitation. Good luck on your search.

[Islandman]

They're quite expensive when purchased new from the factory in Florida, you should really consider looking into buying a five to ten year old model to save a lot of money. Used ones are nearly always in excellent condition because the owner paid a big price for it and takes good care of it. The factory has used ones for sale that were trade-ins on new units; a ten-year old looks just as good as a 2018 model; Coach House doesn't change from year to year like some brands. That keeps the resale value up.

[Bordercollie]

Coach House specs look good. What is typical price new for base mode with base equipment?

[DallasSteve]

To me those B+ look more like C-.

[pnichols]

FWIW, Coach House is right-on by exclusively using the Ford E450 chassis on all models of their Explorer Platinum Class B+ line. (They have other model lines on the Mercedes 3500 chassis.)

http://www.coachhouserv.com/line-platinum.php

With this, you of course get such things as:
1. A chassis that can be serviced all over the U.S..
2. Big brakes that can go a long time between needing new pads because of the chassis versus coach weight overkill.
3. A large fuel tank that provides for hours of built-in generator use for air conditioning in hot weather and a travel range of around 500 miles or more.
4. Fuel available everywhere in even the smallest of podunk towns.
5. A huge capacity cab heating/aircon sustem that can maintain temperatures throughout the entire coach while traveling.
6. A main engine that can be very quietly idled for hours to charge the coach batteries quickly in noise-sensitive situations when solar can't do it.

[Bordercollie]

I'm prejudiced in favor of 27-28 foot Class C's with rear RV Queen bedroom, preferably with access on both sides, may have a bedroom slide. Not keen on slides due to potential problems. Make sure the chosen rig fits your driveway unless you have to store rig on a lot. Short rigs usually require sleeping in the overhead or on a jacknife couch, OK for kid guests. Take your time choosing length, model/floorplan, new vs sightly used, and popular brand name.
If you buy new, expect delays in usage while getting factory defects fixed by dealer. Don't buy extended warranty unless you can study the policy document and are aware of loopholes, exclusions and periods of coverage vs factory and chassis warranties. Few owners benefit from expensive extended warranties.

[DrewE]

pnichols wrote:

Coach House makes superb small motorhomes, but they are Class "B+" motorhomes ... not Class C. (Class C motorhomes have a sleeping area above the chassis cab, but the Coach House units do not.)

You just have to be able to afford them!

I've always understood that class C only meant the chassis started out as a cab-and-chassis or cutaway, while a class B started out as a full van body. The presence or absence of a cabover bunk doesn't have any bearing on whether it's a class C or not.

Thus, "Class B+"--a marketing term, not a separate class recognized by e.g. the RVIA in its own right--is simply if confusingly a small class C with no cabover bunk. Likewise, a Super-C is a class C built on a heavier duty chassis than is typical.

Regardless, whatever they're termed, Coach House does make really nice little RVs from what I know.

[lcseds]

I looked at the Coach House. $175K starting point didn't work for me on a Ford gas chassis.

[pnichols]

flipper2222 wrote:
WOW! looked at the Coach House. Thank you, we had never heard of these. Wow! They are beautiful. I can't find a price on new or used without calling. I will do more investigation. We want to keep our house and travel 1/2 the time. So we will have to watch the budget. We will absolutely do more checking. Love these.

Coach House makes superb small motorhomes, but they are Class "B+" motorhomes ... not Class C. (Class C motorhomes have a sleeping area above the chassis cab, but the Coach House units do not.)

You just have to be able to afford them!

[DallasSteve]

My searches on RV Trader lead me to believe that Class A and Class C are about the same price per foot, but you get more basement storage with a Class A and my wife has a lot of shoes. LOL. Besides that, I think generally a Class A can tow more behind it. The negative is they might be a little harder and more expensive to get service on the motor/drivetrain.

[RedRollingRoadb]

We had a 2007 FR 2860DS bought used. For the most part it was a fine unit. Yes, you need to be creative in the kitchen but DW. got good at it. Then again it was mostly the two of us unless the grandkids joined us then all bets were off.

As far as the mattress - let say good luck with it. There about the cheapest POS you can find. A topper worked for awhile then we replaced it.

I don't know if FR still offeres the outside kitchen still. We saw one at a show and like DW said that would be the way to go if we had kids again.

Seriously I would have bought an "A" but she was afraid to try to drive one. Didn't make any difference as she only drove it about 25' when we had it. I think she is up to 10' on our Bounder now!

Take a look at some of the smaller A's though. You might be surprised what you find.