2018 View/Navion Dead Chassis Battery

[Flarpswitch]

(It is really a 2017 disguised as a 2018 to get a price increase out of me. Sprinter built 09/2016 and coach built 2nd quarter 2017.) I tried to start the motor and found the battery stone cold dead; about 5 Volts. I pulled the battery out to put it on a charger. It is looking like it won't completely recover and there is permanent damage. The RV has spent more that two months worth of time to repair shabby construction (another sad story) and during that time there were references on the work order that there were problems starting the motor several times. I know now what this is about having experienced it myself. There seems to be a constant draw of 5 to 6 Amps on the chassis starting battery. There is no practical way to disconnect as with the coach battery switch. The positive terminal connection is a combination clamp/bus bar with several fused and unfused cable connections. I have identified the starter cable and battery boost cable that connects to the coach battery. Using a battery borrowed from the boat, I tested each isolated cable for any current draw. It appears that the cable that runs to the fuse block under the drivers seat is where the problem is. Removing each fuse in turn has no effect on the parasitic load. I assume the there is other connections there. I don't have a wiring diagram handy and I have not removed the seat to get a better view. I would have expected a few milli-Amps of standby current, but at 5+ Amps, it won't take long before the battery goes dead. In theory, I could have pressed the boost button on the dash to start the motor from the coach battery, but this is not a case of a weak battery; it was DEAD and I did not want to risk potential damage to the Sprinter electrical system not knowing if there was an open or shorted cell.

The RV is still under warranty, so I am not inclined to go much deeper into this. This RV has been an unmitigated disaster from day one with so many problems most of which is due to disgraceful workmanship at Winnebago. I feel like I am on my own most of the time and I have been making repairs on my own which is easier than fighting with Winnebago to recognize that there is a problem. The dealer is in the middle and has to demonstrate to Winnebago that there is a deficiency before repairs can commence. There are several unresolved issues and I am at the point where If I can get the RV going safely, we will make one more trip and get rid of this pile of **** in the most practical way possible. One trip I thought of is to drive to Forest City, Iowa and take a bus home.

Anyway, I just thought that maybe someone out there with a late model View/Navion has had a similar problem so I could narrow it down to give the repair people a head start. With their track record, they need all the help they can get.

[luvlabs]

Stop worrying about parasitic draws and do one of two things - either pull the battery ground if you are going to be parked for more than a couple of days (it's right above the accelerator pedal) or install a Tric-L-Charge device. The Tric-L-Charge, in conjunction with your house batteries and charger (solar or conventional) will keep your chassis battery at full charge.

You should convince your dealer to replace the original battery as it probably below specs. Mercedes uses an AGM battery for the chassis battery and while pretty bulletproof, it can be damaged. You can find them locally if you prefer to change it yourself.

[TreeSeeker]

Electronic issues are a bear to find and fix.

I do caution people about disconnecting the engine battery when not in use. If you do this, the vehicle's computer will have to be reinitialized before you can pass a smog test. This requires driving it some unknown distance (I did 50 miles) on both city streets and freeways.

I found out this the hard way which also required two visits to the DMV and late fees because I couldn’t get it retested before the registration expired.

[Flarpswitch]

I found the problem and for now it is ok. I recall from previous trouble shooting that taking random readings won't be accurate. First, I discovered that my best VOM had an internal resistance that was too high and the Sprinter saw it as a bad battery cable. I did find another meter that had a 1 Ohm internal resistance on the 10 Amp range so I used it for fault finding. I reconnected all the connections to the positive battery bus and placed the meter in series with the negative ground cable. After turning off and removing the key, I monitored the draw on the battery as different components go to sleep. I made sure doors were closed and lights were off. The draw was not the 5 to 6 Amps that I read previously, but were more like 3 to 4 Amps, still too high. By moving the meter to each of the connections on the positive side, I found that the excessive draw was coming from the driver's seat area where a fuse block is, as I previously tested. Under the seat in addition to the Sprinter wiring there was stuff added by Winnebago. A mass of yellow and white wires. I found a 'Shiner' that looked like it could be trouble. I clean up things a bit and the trouble went away. I could have read the number codes on the wires to determine the source of the trouble, but I was running out of steam and I was just happy to fix the problem. After putting it all together, I ran another test allowing time for the Sprinter to go to sleep. The current draw went down into the milliamp range. I assume that is normal to keep alive essential stuff.

This is a new RV. I should not have to be doing this, but when it goes to the shop I get, "Found OK. Within design specifications."

Ever ask yourself, "Is it just me or do other people have this sort of luck?" I got my answer this afternoon when a friend called me to tell me about his fifth-wheel that he took in to have the black holding tank sensors replaced. The read out was never right because the sensors in the tank would foul and never got clean despite having an internal track spray. The fix would be to replace with a new type that is resistant to fouling. He brought the RV home after repairs were completed and looked at the repair invoice more closely to find that the jacks on the rear were removed and replaced. That made no sense as the holding tank was more to the middle. So, he goes to the repair shop to ask about it. After quizzing the repair tech my friend finds out that the sensors on the fresh water tank were replaced. The repair ticket clearly states that it is the black water holding tank that was to be repaired. It is a good thing those guys are not running a hospital.

[PaisleyDale]

Steve, I cannot help with why your battery goes dead so soon, but you might get some good information from the Navion/View group on Yahoo, unless you are a member already.

Good luck with your pursuits.

[Olddud]

neschultz wrote:
They used to have a disconnect for the chassis battery just to the right of the accelerator pedal. Did they stop putting them on or move it?

There is one on my 2017 (2016) View.

AND, I had a BUNCH of problems with mine that nearly had me driving it off a cliff, but managed to get some done by the dealer and many of the others (some big) done by me. Now, it is just fine.

As far as current draw off the starting battery, I certainly don't have 5 amps draw with mine, as my little battery minder charger is keeping it at about 13.1 volts.

[Flarpswitch]

We had a 2009 Navion on a 2008 Sprinter chassis. I never had any problems with the chassis battery. As a matter of fact when I sold it last year, it had the original battery. Every year I would take it out an load test it and periodically connect a Battery Minder, the one that de-sulfates the battery.

I did have excessive parasitic draws on the coach battery on the 2009 that I addressed by rewiring the radio to function more like a car radio so that when it was off, it only drew a few milliAmps. The way Winnebago wired it, it was always in standby mode using as much as 200 milliAmps. The speaker switch operated a relay and if left in the wrong position, that relay was another vampire. The speaker switch became the power switch for the radio and the relay was connected to the radio lead marked "Antenna". When the radio was switched on, the relay was energized and the coach speakers were switch from the dash radio to the coach radio. The assumption was if I turned on the coach radio, I would want the speakers connected, so it became automatic. The new Navion has no shared speaker setup. There are all sorts of ways you can mitigate unnecessary battery power consumption. There is what I consider too much vampire stuff going on in the new Navion. One obvious thing is the electric propane gas switch on the tank. Because the tank is mounted out of reach, the main cutoff is operated by switches in two locations, both of which have to be "on" or no gas flows. I discovered on one of my many trips under the RV to repair stuff that the control valve gets quite warm to the touch. The fix for that is to turn off the gas when it is not being used. There are other vampires in the system and I will get to those in due time. That is if I don't divest myself of this headache on wheels.

There is a quick disconnect for the negative ground cable adjacent to the accelerator pedal. Everyone who owns a Sprinter should know it's function and location. In an emergency, this is the only way to quickly disconnect the battery to possibly prevent a fire or serious damage. It is also recommended that if the Sprinter is not driven in three or more weeks, the battery should be disconnected. My battery is going dead in about a week's time. To isolated where the excessive current draw was coming from I first disconnected the cables attached to the positive clamp/bus and measured the resistance to ground to determined if I would blow a fuse on my ammeter (10A). Doing the math, I calculated less than 10 Amps. By isolating the draw to one cable, I know where the problem is not, I just don't know where it IS. You will probably see on modern cars and trucks that the positive battery cable is not a single heavy gauge wire that disappears somewhere under the hood. There is likely two or more wires connected right at the battery. You will also see negative ground return busses from various places around the vehicle. This is so not to rely on the chassis for a good ground. Vehicles have severals computers connected together and good solid connections are necessary for everything to function reliably. I think my problem has something to do with the slide-out rooms. For the slides to operate, the ignition switch has to be on and the parking brake set. I don't know, I'm open for any suggestions. Again, I was hoping that this was not an isolated case and someone has already experience this problem.

[Sam_Spade]

donn0128 wrote:
New vehicles have a lotmof paracitic draw. Computers, radios all draw a bit of current.

A common MISconception. There is no reason for ANYTHING other than keyless entry/ignition/security receivers to draw ANY significant parasitic current.

[Harvey51]

Indeed 5A parasitic draw is ridiculous. I've seen that mercury switch hood light problem on a friend's car - it burned out a the 5 amp range on my multimeter. The strangest one recently discovered in a car was cured by putting a new battery in the remote - I guess the remote system's radio in the car was straining to link with the remote.

Good work tracing the current to the interior fuse block. And good news that it is under the seat; it will be way easier to take out the seat than the dashboard! A DC clampmeter is really convenient in this kind of work - you measure the current without disconnecting the wire and there is never any harm to the meter. Much cheaper AC clamp meters are sometimes sold as "AC/DC" because they have an AC volts range. I have a UNI-T $45 one like This - the fact that a high amp DC range is listed certifies that it is a DC clampmeter. No problem measuring 5 amps but not very accurate under half an amp.

Temporary workaround: Battery post disconnect available in hardware and auto parts stores.

[klutchdust]

Parasitic draws will deplete the battery in my C after a few weeks. When I plug it into ground power at the house I use a black and decker battery maintainer plugged into the 120Volt wall plug and then into the 12 volt plug on the dash. Problem solved for me. It keeps just enough current to offset the draw.

As far as the year of the coach, mine is an 08 chassis and a 09 house. The manufacturer purchases large numbers of chassis and as they are finished and ready for sale then the manufacturer dates the unit. Mine was finished in 09 so it's an 09 Cambria. Federal law.

[neschultz]

They used to have a disconnect for the chassis battery just to the right of the accelerator pedal. Did they stop putting them on or move it?

[MDKMDK]

My first guess would be a light is on somewhere in the unit. Is there an under hood courtesy lamp that might not be shutting off when the hood is closed? Some use a mercury switch to shut off, when the hood is closed, and I had an older Chevy product kill 1 battery and severely beat up another before I noticed the light shining out from under the engine compartment on my driveway one night. The other "lights on" places might be in one of the storage compartments, but I would think they'd run off the coach batteries. That does seem like a lot of amps for even an incandescent light or two. It must be something else, like a fan motor or something similar.

Just some guesses.

[DrewE]

5A, if steady and not just for a little while when first connected, is way to high for a chassis parasitic draw. The battery would be dead within a day, possibly less. Do you have e.g. the dome light on when you're checking? Are the outside mirrors heated, and is the heater switch on?

[donn0128]

New vehicles have a lotmof paracitic draw. Computers, radios all draw a bit of current. 5A seems like a lot, but you never know. Simple solution is to add a knife switch at the battery + side and open it every time you park.

[Sam_Spade]

Flarpswitch wrote:
There seems to be a constant draw of 5 to 6 Amps on the chassis starting battery.

How exactly did you determine that ??

I think it is more likely that the battery has just been "abused" while sitting on the dealers lot and while in their shop. Letting it run completely down two or 3 times will often kill it completely. It is not made to be used like that.

If everything is working correctly, the drain on the starting battery with everything OFF should be VERY close to ZERO. Like 50 milliamps or less.