Help needed with CAT scale numbers

[Baja_Man]

After discussing in a previous thread about my Equalizer hitch 1200/12000 model and if is appropriate for my truck / trailer, I believe it would best to get real CAT weights.

Below are my CAT scale weights today. The weights / procedures were
found here on RVnet as recommended for finding trailer tongue weight, trailer weight, WD weights, tow vehicle weight, etc

Tow vehicle - (with one 285# occupant):
FULL fuel tank
Approx. 100# in bed

Trailer -

Ready to travel...
FULL propane
FULL water
Full gear in forward storage (table, chairs, BBQ, etc)
Clothes, dishes, pots/pans, books, linen, tools, etc.



Weight #1 - (trailer connected to tow vehicle and WD hitch hooked up) front TV axle on scale 1, rear TV axle on scale 2, and trailer axles on scale 3

Axle 1 (TV front axle): 3360#
Axle 2 (TV vehicle rear axle): 4680#
Trailer axles: 8120#
Total axles: 16,160#

Weight #2 - Same set up as above except WD hitch NOT hooked up and WD trunion bars placed in back up pick up bed

Axle 1: 3240#
Axle 2: 4840#
Trailer axle: 8060#
Total axles: 16,140#


Weight #3 - Truck ONLY (all above apply...occupant, fuel, bed weight)

Steer axle: 3740#
Drive axle: 3160#
Total axles: 6900#


So, please help me understand what all of these numbers mean!

I would like to know the following so I can proceed with purchasing the correct WD hitch and truck receiver hitch.

My current Equalizer hitch is a 1200#/12000#
My trucks receiver is factory WD 1250#/12500#


1. Trailer tongue weight (so I can purchase correct WD hitch and truck receiver hitch

2. Trailer weight

Thanks!

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First Thread from 11-21-17:

After discussing in a previous thread about my Equalizer hitch 1200/12000 model and if is appropriate for my truck / trailer, I believe it would best to get real CAT weights.

Below are my CAT scale weights today. The weights / procedures were
found here on RVnet as recommended for finding trailer tongue weight, trailer weight, WD weights, tow vehicle weight, etc

Tow vehicle - (with one 285# occupant):
FULL fuel tank
Approx. 100# in bed

Trailer -

Ready to travel...
FULL propane
FULL water
Full gear in forward storage (table, chairs, BBQ, etc)
Clothes, dishes, pots/pans, books, linen, tools, etc.



Weight #1 - (trailer connected to tow vehicle and WD hitch hooked up) front TV axle on scale 1, rear TV axle on scale 2, and trailer axles on scale 3

Axle 1 (TV front axle): 3360#
Axle 2 (TV vehicle rear axle): 4680#
Trailer axles: 8120#
Total axles: 16,160#

Weight #2 - Same set up as above except WD hitch NOT hooked up and WD trunion bars placed in back up pick up bed

Axle 1: 3240#
Axle 2: 4840#
Trailer axle: 8060#
Total axles: 16,140#


Weight #3 - Truck ONLY (all above apply...occupant, fuel, bed weight)

Steer axle: 3740#
Drive axle: 3160#
Total axles: 6900#


So, please help me understand what all of these numbers mean!

I would like to know the following so I can proceed with purchasing the correct WD hitch and truck receiver hitch.

My current Equalizer hitch is a 1200#/12000#
My trucks receiver is factory WD 1250#/12500#


1. Trailer tongue weight (so I can purchase correct WD hitch and truck receiver hitch

2. Trailer weight

Thanks!

[keymastr]

Looks pretty good to me. You could transfer a little more weight but when mine gets closer to 75% of the front axle restored it feels like the rear end gets pushed around by passing trucks easier.

Your trailer weight is 9260 with 1220 tongue weight, about 13.5% which is great. Try another washer and if it feels like you are getting pushed around more then take it back out. My guess is one more will be perfect.

Glad it rides good now and thanks for the update.

[JBarca]

Baja Man wrote:
Thanks John--

I started another post on my NEW hitch set up. Thought I would get more responses seeing as this thread was already several weeks old and most people tend to view/respond to threads that are near the top of the list. Thank you for sticking with this thread!!

NOTE: I have been using my electric tongue jack to raise/lower the trailer and swing bars onto L brackets. I a y have to add 1-2 additional wood blocks under jack foot to raise it high enough to install bars on L brackets....as it's close to toping out now

OK, you have the right jacking concept. I carry a 6" wood block to put under the electric jack foot to gain enough height. On 1,700# WD bars there is no safe way to pull them up without jacking the camper and truck coupled up sky high. Then I can put the bars on by hand. Let the jack down and all the weight loads up.

I'll go look for your other post

[Baja_Man]

Thanks John--

I started another post on my NEW hitch set up. Thought I would get more responses seeing as this thread was already several weeks old and most people tend to view/respond to threads that are near the top of the list. Thank you for sticking with this thread!!

NOTE: I have been using my electric tongue jack to raise/lower the trailer and swing bars onto L brackets. I a y have to add 1-2 additional wood blocks under jack foot to raise it high enough to install bars on L brackets....as it's close to toping out now

[JBarca]

Baja Man wrote:

Drove it approx. 25 miles to CAT scale. Drove great!

Here are NEW weights:

Weight #1 (Truck and trailer WITH WD engaged):

Front axle: 3400#
Rear axle: 4680#
Trailer axle: 8140#
Total: 16220#

Weight #2 (Truck and trailer WD NOT engaged):

Front axle: 3220#
Rear axle: 4980#
Trailer axle: 8040
Total: 16240#

Weight #3 (truck only with new camper shell and 40# in bed):

Front axle: 3700#
Rear axle: 3280#
Total: 6980#

So.....is this better than where I was the first weigh in and previous hitch?
Are further fine tuning adjustments needed? If so, what exactly?

You are in a much better place now. But one point for a heads up.

You added the new truck cap but only have 40# of gear in the truck bed. Is this the way you plan on camping? only 40# in the bed?

From your numbers, the dead weight of the tongue with no WD removes 480# from the front axle. (3700 - 3,220 = 480) When you add the WD bars, you move weight up front but the front axle is still 300# from unhitched (light.) (3700 - 3,400 = 300) You moved 180# up front from the rear axle. That is not yet even 50% restored from unhitched. 50% would be 240# moved up front. Between 50% and no more than 100% back to original is better. If you want a target, shoot for 75%. (120# light on the front or moved 360# to the front axle in place of the current 180# moved)

The truck is riding good now. This is a good first step. From my experience, you are on the edge of being optimized. If more weight is added to the back of the truck behind the rear axle, this will affect the WD to making it somewhat worse then it is now which is already not optimized.

I would recommend you load the truck bed like you go camping. Check the WD settings on the truck by the fender heights. Reset the WD hitch again and while doing it, shift some more weight towards the front axle. Odds are high 1 more washer of ball tilt back towards the camper will put you right about where you need to be. Then check the L brackets that the WD bars are close to parallel with the frame and brackets, check for level camper and figure out if you need to move the shank (again) and try a test drive.

Once you get the WD optimized, then some level of truck bed weight and or camper TW will not affect the settings enough to be noticed. In your case, with a 1,220# loaded TW, 1 ton truck, a bed weight change of +/- 100# will not really be felt, "once" you are optimized. Your not quite there yet. But a lot closer. If you add 100 to 200# to the truck bed now, since you are not optimized, it can make the front axle even worse.

It normally takes "at least" 3 times to dial in a WD hitch. And it is common that folks new to setting a WD hitch often end up being light on the front end. It's OK, it is all adjustable and your getting better at it every time you go back at it. And you will enjoy the good times when you are dialed in to be optimized. And even better, understand why and how you made it to this point.

We commend you for taking this seriously and trying to get the setup the best it can be. Good for you!

Hope this helps

John

PS, are you having any issues swinging the WD bars onto the L brackets by hand? Meaning not pulling up hard with the lift handle? If you are not able do this without the lift handle pulling up, let us know. There is a technique by jacking up the truck and camper high enough to allow this and not get yourself hurt with the WD bar handle.

[Baja_Man]

I'm back with a new hitch installed!

NEW Hitch has been set up following the Equal-i-zer directions.
Hitch is a 1400/14000 model with a 13" rise shank.

Trailer is now LEVEL!!!!

5 washers were used and the L bracket mounted on trailer (where bars attach) is set leaving two visible holes on top (see pic).

Drove it approx. 25 miles to CAT scale. Drove great!

Here are NEW weights:

Weight #1 (Truck and trailer WITH WD engaged):

Front axle: 3400#
Rear axle: 4680#
Trailer axle: 8140#
Total: 16220#

Weight #2 (Truck and trailer WD NOT engaged):

Front axle: 3220#
Rear axle: 4980#
Trailer axle: 8040
Total: 16240#

Weight #3 (truck only with new camper shell and 40# in bed):

Front axle: 3700#
Rear axle: 3280#
Total: 6980#

So.....is this better than where I was the first weigh in and previous hitch?
Are further fine tuning adjustments needed? If so, what exactly?

Thanks!!

[keymastr]

Good deal, hope it goes smooth. No working on the trailer here, would have to shovel the snow out of the way. Be a few years yet before we can move south in the winter. Curious to see how it works out.

[Baja_Man]

12-19-17: Installed NEW Curt bolts, washers, and nuts. Torqued to 150 ft/lb.

Now I can begin the hitch set up process....following all of the great advice shared on this thread.

[JBarca]

Good deal. Yes, getting that old receiver off can be a challenge. I had to use my 3/4" drive set (breaker bar and ratchet with pipe) and it fought me all the way, every bolt to the last thread. My 1/2" impact would not touch them and I did not have my 1" one then.

I went the Reese Tow Beast route. Back then they were one of the few who had a 2 1/2" receiver rated that high to fit the truck. Now there are a lot more companies providing and yes, the new Curt one is a beast. I put the 2" one on a 2500HD last fall for a camper friend.
F350 Receiver Upgrade - (Pic's)

Good luck with the hitch setup.

John

[Baja_Man]

Great advice, thank you.

I just installed my new Curt 15410 hitch....what a beast of a hitch! Talk about HEAVY DUTY!!!!

Made one small mistake during install.....I used my impact gun to tighten new hitch bolts (why?....I used it to loosen factory hitch bolts and figured I would tighten new hitch bolts with it too). After thinking about it, I looked up specs of my impact and it is rated at 700 ft/lbs!!!!

So I called Curt and they told me that was WAY too much and that bolts were probably compromised (stretched). They recommended I install new bolts and nuts and torque to 150 ft.lbs as stated in install manual.

So, changing bolts is not too bad of a job, just a hassle and cost of new bolts. I've done all this work and spent much $$$$, so I am not going to cut any corners at this point, especially on something related to safety.

So, in the next week I'll get it all buttoned down and adjusted properly. I'll keep you all posted with pics.

Thanks!!!

[keymastr]

I would add one thing here, the Equalizer manual and Ford both agree on the front fender height restoration being between 50% and 100%. Ignore the axle WEIGHTS other than not going over the gross axle weight ratings. The manual only talks about fender HEIGHT since most people don't have access to scales when doing initial setup.. All of JBarca's info is spot on otherwise and his ball height suggestion is spot on.

You may have to go through the whole procedure a couple times before you get the whole setup correct. When you are done the trailer will be level, the bars will be parallel to the trailer frame and your fender height will be within that 50% - 100% range. Then you can go for a drive and confirm your axle weights are not exceeded at the scales.

Mine took 5 washers to get the correct fender height and it is a pain in the butt to have to take the shank apart to add or subtract washers but that is what changes the ball angle and the ball angle changes how much weight is transferred. I think that your trailer being so nose down was affecting how the hitch was transferring weight so that should improve also. I will guess that your brackets will need to be raised once the trailer is level in order to keep the bars parallel to the trailer frame.

I also noticed when my hitch was new that the sway control worked much better after a couple hundred miles when the paint wore off of the bars and brackets. I guess the raw steel has more friction than the painted steel. Good luck, you are on the right path now and will have it dialed in in a couple hours. 🙂

[JBarca]

After thinking about this, there is one area in the EQ manual I do not agree with their thinking. Page 10 where they says this,

EQ said wrote:
With the trailer parallel to the ground, measure from the ground to the top of the trailer coupler. The hitch ball should initially be placed as close to this height as possible. See Figure 1.

You can do it that way, but I can tell you, you will be adjusting the shank up after you set the WD to level out the trailer if you start out like they are stating to make it the same as the truck unhitched.

I have done many of these setups and with your truck suspension and the already 1,200# TW, I would set the hitch head 1" to max 1.5" above the trailer coupler. Like this


The back of the truck is going to drop some from unhitched height when WD is all set. There is no way around this with 50 to 100% weight restoration on the front of the truck. And it is perfectly OK for the rear of the truck to squat 1" to 1.5" when the front axle is where it is supposed to be. Even 1 3/4 to 2" squat if the front axle is right is not a problem. If you do this adjustment at setup, it can be one less step later.

Regardless of which option you will pic, shoot for 1" above or same at unhitched height like EQ states for setting the ball height to start at, on page 21 EQ talks about adjusting the hitch shank to make sure the camper is not too low or high when WD is adjusted. And then after resetting the hitch height you will need to go over the WD adjustments again and tweak as needed. You will be closer to right if you start 1" to max 1.5" above trailer level with the ball when you start out.

Hope this helps

John

[JBarca]

Hi Baja Man,

I read over the lastest EQ manual online tonight before responding to see what their latest version is. This manual from their site.

https://www.equalizerhitch.com/documents/manuals/EQ-Owners-Manual_2016-06.pdf

I agree with their current manual as they have updated it from years ago. They are now on board with current day thinking and they are agreeing with returning the lost weight on the front axle of the truck 50% to no more than 100% of the unhitched weight. On my F350 with 500# of gear in the truck bed and 1,600# of loaded camper TW, I run the front axle approx 100# lighter then unhitched in my case. This helps with what they call, Oversteer where the truck in a hard turn can bite in so to speak on the front end and shove the truck into jack knife quicker with the trailer pushing the truck. SAE has done the research and now recommends this so the front end will slide only a little but that is better then biting in.

Your F350 will also ride better and be more stable when the top rear overload spring kisses or is resting on the frame bracket. This acts like a rear roll bar and helps stop the left to right wiggle in the back of the truck with a heavy TW camper pushing it. Your 600# of added bed weight cargo and a 1,200 to 1,400# TW camper will create this without issue. Setting the truck up empty and no bed load you will find the problem.

I will add a tip, get a 6" high wood block and carry it with you camping all the time. This goes under the tongue jack so you can jack up the truck and camper high enough to swing the WD bars onto the L brackets with "out" using the special lift handle. Those high rated WD bars are strong and pulling hard on them is unsafe if one flies off on you. Jack the rig coupled up high enough and all goes on by hand. Yes, it will look sky high but that is not a problem. That lift lever flying off at you will hurt big time.

Good luck, hope this helps and let us know if you need more

John

[Baja_Man]

Thanks JBarca.

Shall I just start by following instructions and/or video on EQ website?
Are there other considerations?

Have never started from scratch as the 12K hitch I originally used was included when I purchased the trailer and hitch bar brackets were already installed on trailer.

Thanks!

[JBarca]

Great pic! I see you have the 6 1/2 ft bed like mine does.

You have good truck capacity to start with. The 9,700# GVWR will be the weak area to watch but you can still be under that with a level of extra. When the WD hitch is set up right, your axle loads will be in line with your ratings when you add your; passengers, 600# of cargo in the bed and if or when you're loaded tongue weight reaches towards 1,400# when extra gear in the camper just shows up. In time, it will. You have a good foundation to create a stable towing setup. It just will take a little work until you dial it in and be glad you did with a pleasant tow.

Thanks

John