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F150 asa TV for 5th wheel

Blanch
Explorer
Explorer
I need some opinions on the F150 as a 5th wheel puller. I am looking to upgrade my TV. I have a 03 Duramax. {I don't think I can afford to go diesel again. Looking at the F150 as a tow and be our main vehicle. What are the opinions on F150 as a puller? Thanks
03 DMax CC Short bed Pewter
02 305 Jayco 30' BH
Husky Underbed slide hitch with Prodigy Brake
great wife two daughters and one boy
Sadie, the family's golden retriever
51 REPLIES 51

ib516
Explorer
Explorer
demiles wrote:
FYI, The maximum pin weight you will find on a 2017-2018 F150 is 1755 lbs. Ford doesnโ€™t come right out and list max pin weight but it is 15% of the TWR of the truck regardless of available payload. So even if you have 2300 lbs of payload Ford says you canโ€™t use that for pin or hitch weight, only truck payload. I contacted them directly and this is Fordโ€™s explanation of how it works not mine.

That's because there still needs to be payload available for a driver and cargo.

I agree, though the F150 is a fine tow vehicle, it's not the best choice for a 30 foot long bunkhouse 5er. The OP has 3 kids and a dog. That means a lot of additional stuff comes along.

Can you tow a 5er with an F150? Yes. Can you do it and be under all the ratings? Yes. Will the OP be under all his ratings with the 5er in his sig and a family of 5 (with a dog)? Not a chance.
Prev: 2010 Cougar 322QBS (junk)
02 Dodge 2500 4x4 5.9L CTD 3.55
07 Dodge 3500 4x4 SRW Mega 5.9L CTD 3.73
14 Ram 2500 4x4 Crew 6.4L Hemi 4.10
06 Chevy 1500 4x4 E-Cab 3.73 5.3L
07 Dodge 1500 5.7L Hemi 3.55 / 2010 Jayco 17z
All above are sold, no longer own an RV

rhagfo
Explorer
Explorer
Palindat wrote:
What if you were to tow a 11000 lb trailer with a (i think it called a toad) with zero hitch weight. Is that posible.


Zero not sure, but there are a couple tow dollies out on the market that allow towing a 5er with a SUV, that looks like would have a very low "hitch" weight.
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#

"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"

Palindat
Explorer
Explorer
What if you were to tow a 11000 lb trailer with a (i think it called a toad) with zero hitch weight. Is that posible.
Rick
2010 F150 XTR 4X4 Max Trailer Tow
2001 Security W26SLQRK

aftermath
Explorer II
Explorer II
Where is the OP? I think Blanch is a troll trying to get up a war over the best truck and what can haul what. Fords are the best and can do anything....I think he has succeeded.

You bet, a half ton can tow a large 5er with ease.
2017 Toyota Tundra, Double Cab, 5.7L V8
2006 Airstream 25 FB SE
Equalizer Hitch

mhamershock
Explorer
Explorer
Let's do the math. The max payload you can build on a F150 is a RC, 5.0, 141"WB at 3270lbs. It is tow rated at 11,000 lbs. All these numbers are from the Ford guides. In reality getting 3270 payload would be very difficult without the truck being pretty bare bones. But we'll go with it.

So if you load up to the max of the truck's rated towing capacity with a 11,000 lb 5th wheel, your pin weight per the guide should be between 15% (1650 lbs) and 25% (2750 lbs). That's well within all ratings for the truck, RAWR included. No, it doesn't leave you much headroom at full max PW but it will tow it safely. Maybe the truck is for a single guy and his dog, living the RV life and fishing all across the country and he doesn't need more. Ok, my personal fantasy got in the way there.

The math is clear, but there are many variables for each build and trailer. Yes, a 250 gasser would have way more headroom. So would a 350 or 450. It's a matter of the right tool for the job.

M

demiles
Explorer
Explorer
What the SAE standard does is allow the manufacturers to pump up the TWR using the minimum 15% pin weight recommended for fifth wheels. To do that they use as much pin weight as they can and still keep it SAE compliant. So if Ford allowed you put 2,000lbs of pin weight on the truck that would put the TWR out to 13,335 lbs to be SAE compliant. So my next thought was that is was ok to have a lighter overall trailer weight and the pin weight could be higher as long as it doesnโ€™t exceed the payload and rawr. Ford said no to that and said that exceeding a pin weight higher than the %15 of the TWR in the towing guide was exceeding the limit. Iโ€™ll take that as the maximum pin weight allowed for the truck.

I agree that we are all used to having pin weight only limited to available payload or RAWR. Ford is is changing the rule by limiting the TWR well below available payload and RAWR on the F150 most likely because of the SAE standard. Vehicle dynamics are quite different between a truck alone loaded to GVWR/RAWR and one thatโ€™s pulling a 5th wheel thatโ€™s 11,000 lbs with 2,000 lbs pin weight.
2008 Jayco G2 28RBS
2016 Nissan XD 5.0L Cummins

BenK
Explorer
Explorer
Just know that most ALL of the OEM's use the lightest TV as their basis for their MAXIMUM tow/haul ratings.

Nature of that beast driven by Marketing to folks who are ignorant (uneducated) on the matter. AKA...King of the Hill bragging rights that folks post here most of the time as an absolute

Back to the OP

Your decision.

If you have desire for a new, albeit lower class TV than your current TV...go for it

But, know and understand you are stepping DOWN in TV class

Use their OEM ratings and understand how that system works

Of most importance are the actual weights of your new setup. The limiting factor of all TVs of any class are the RGAWR among the other ratings

Most all of the weight put on/in any TV is generally going on the rear axle. As in most cases, the drivers rear door edge is at the center line between the front/rear axles...and the bed is behind that center line.

Good luck !
-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

spud1957
Explorer
Explorer
Work with facts, not rumor


Well lets not call it "rumor" or BS. Obviously Ford has two contradicting documents.

The Trailer Towing Guide DOES state 15%. The eSource document states 15-25%. So no, it's not rumor. It's in black and white.

As well, Ford needs to work on their accuracy in their documents. The 2017 eSource document keeps referring to the 8200lb payload package in some of the notes which does not exist in 2017.
2018 F350 6.7 4x4 CCSB
2022 GD Reflection 337 RLS

mhamershock
Explorer
Explorer
demiles wrote:

Call it whatever you want but itโ€™s no claim on my part, it came right from Ford. First from a Ford commercial truck salesman then a phone call to Ford. Your right they donโ€™t come right out and say what the max pin weight is, which is the reason I asked in the first place. If you check any other manufacturers ratings you will find that the max pin weight is 15% of the 5th wheel TWR.


Ok, still BS is what I'll call it. Here's the eSourceBook 2017 F150 guide. https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/2017/2017_F-150_eSB_Specs_1-23-17.pdf

It's got every published rating for a 17/18 F150. RAWR/GVWR/GCW is what matters. 5th wheel pin weight should range from 15-25% of total trailer weight per the guide. There isn't a single word on "maximum pin weight".

OP, if your 5th wheel is within the specs for the HDPP build you'd want, you should be fine. Will a modern 250 do it better? Probably. The 150 max GVWR is 7850 and that's pretty light compared to the 250s, esp the gas motor version.

Work with facts, not rumor.

time2roll
Explorer II
Explorer II
Lot of FUD in this thread. Stay in the ratings and you will be fine.

Bionic_Man
Explorer
Explorer
spud1957 wrote:
rhagfo wrote:
spud1957 wrote:
The info demiles provided is correct. Read Ford's 2017 F150 Towing Guide notes on page 3 for 5th wheel towing;

1.Calculated with SAE J2807 method

Note: Trailer king pin load weight should be 15% of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer king pin load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label

F150 Towing Guide


Yep! Another Ford slide of hand, first is was stripper base trucks less spare tire and rear bumpe, now you can carry/tow an 11,700# 5er, BUT you need to keep the pin weight to 15% of the 11,700# or 1,755#. Now as a 5er tower, towing a 5er with ONLY 15% pin weight is going to be one rough ride, it will chuck like crazy! That and to get to 15% on almost all 5ers you would need to load heavy behind the axles, this could make for an ill handling 5er.

No that is not the total available payload of that F150, BUT they know there are other things that eat payload, passengers, fuel, hitch, and stuff!

Now that 11,700# 5er with a realistic 20% to 22% that would be 2,340# to 2,574# pin!


You might want to check your Ram towing guides before anyone points their finger at Ford.

Ram does the same.

Take a look at the note #7.

http://www.rambodybuilder.com/2016/docs/ram/rammlup3500.pdf

For those that won't bother looking, here it is;

Tongue weight: 10 percent of the gross trailer weight for Conventional Hitch, 15 percent of the gross trailer weight for a 5th Wheel or Gooseneck hitch.

As far as no bumper or spare tire. I call BS on that. Ford uses J2807 just as Ram. Show me where this internet folklore is stated.

Take a look at the Ram 2500 guide. There are tow ratings there for certain models that if you use 20% pin weight, you will also exceed your payload as well.


The Ford without the spare tire etc. has actually been documented. But at this point, it is old news. It was before Ford switched to the SAE guidelines. Not accurate for any of their current vehicles.
2012 RAM 3500 Laramie Longhorn DRW CC 4x4 Max Tow, Cummins HO, 60 gallon RDS aux fuel tank, Reese 18k Elite hitch
2003 Dodge Ram 3500 QC SB 4x4 Cummins HO NV5600 with Smarty JR, Jacobs EB (sold)
2002 Gulf Stream Sea Hawk 29FRB with Honda EV6010

IdaD
Explorer
Explorer
Iโ€™m not reading 4 pages of this stuff. Bottom line is yes you can tow a fifth wheel with the right F150 and a small enough trailer. My input would be that a HD truck doesnโ€™t cost any or much more and is a more capable platform. I guess I donโ€™t really see why you wouldnโ€™t step up. But I also get that this is a sliding scale. I donโ€™t like dually trucks so thatโ€™s where I draw the line. Others are willing to go all the way to MDTโ€™s or beyond. Then there are the dudes rolling arriving in Subaruโ€™s.

Whatever floats your boat I guess.
2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB

BenK
Explorer
Explorer
LOL....if me...I'd just stick with the higher class currently own and avoid the risk of dropping down in TV class by ordering the wrong one that would cost tens of thousands more than the sunk cost that the one sitting out on the driveway right now...

That 'might' be enough TV...and since lower class and towing at or over the limits/ratings/etc...to be worn out faster...

And NOT be as capable to 'manhandle' the issue when Mr Murphy crosses my path some day...as the 'sizing'...'ratings'...'specifications' are NOT for the good days out there...but for that day Mr Murphy crosses your path and you need every part of that specification the OEMs dialed in for 'that' vehicle...

But that is just my opinions on this matter....
-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

demiles
Explorer
Explorer
Screw trucks with the eco boost are available with the HDPP but requires max tow as well. The V8 trucks are available with just HDPP.
2008 Jayco G2 28RBS
2016 Nissan XD 5.0L Cummins