Help me make sense of my vehicle's towing capabilities

[dante93gtz]

I'm trying to best determine what my truck is (and is not) capable of hauling. We recently sold our F350 diesel in favor of something with 3 rows of seating. We bought a '14 Cadillac Escalade ESV AWD. That being said, I'm coming from the world of being able to tow most anything to now having to think about weights and capacities again. 😞

The Mrs. and I have started talking about a camper to get our young family out in the woods more easily than by tent camping. In an effort to make the most informed decision possible, I wanted to get some opinions from the forum.

I've done some preliminary research on my vehicle but based on the results, I'm concerned that either (a) I've not taken a variable into consideration, or (b) my new TV is much less capable than I originally thought.

Alright, so... I've got the basic figures listed here along with what I believe are accurate weights:

'14 Escalade ESV Weights w/ Class III hitch (in lbs.)

Curb Weight: 5982
GVWR: 7400

Carrying Capacity incl. tongue weight: 1418

Theoretical Passenger Weight: 500 (2 adults, 3 small children + small carry-on items)

Theoretical Fuel Weight (31gal): 196

Theoretical capacity (of GVWR) for tongue
weight afer fuel and passengers: 672

Towing Capacity: 7700

Weight of the camper itself aside, by my figures it looks like I should be looking for a travel trailer with a tongue weight of <672lbs, correct? That seems fairly low, considering the trailers we've been looking at are generally 700-800lbs for the tongue weight. Of course, we'll be running a WD setup but I know that doesn't reduce tongue weight.

Any advice or input based on these figures? We still have access to my father's Dodge 3500 is we *had* to use it to go camping, but we were really hoping to use the Escalade since the kids will be much less cramped inside. We don't plan on going much further than 200 miles away from home as we live very close to many of the areas we'd like to camp at.

Thanks in advance,
Brian

[Grit_dog]

Well you’ve come to the right spot for advice that ranges from a mountain out of a mole hill to picking fly sht out of pepper.
Short answer is, one , it depends how you’re using it. Thousands of miles every year and difficult towing (mountain grades) or a few weekend warrior trips.
Either way, I’d be comfortable in either scenario up to right around the rating of the Caddy.
And yes a wdh does reduce the hitch tongue weight.

[mitchmitchell16]

One of the best towing calculators I've seen is the spreadsheet done by Purdue University Agricultural Department and the Princeton, Kentucky Police Department:

ConventialHitchTruckTrailerCalculator

It walks you through most everything including vehicle ratings, actual weights, hitch ratings, safety chain ratings, tire ratings and really helps you find all the numbers you need to know to tow safely.


Click For Full-Size Image.

[itguy08]

BenK wrote:

I'm talking MTWR...you are talking payload. Apples to oranges...but inter-related...as all ratings play in the ratings system

Yes, and the Maximum Tow Rating is calculated based on the GVWR, axle ratings, and payload.

Best if we had the actual weight of your TV. Both empty and fully (people, cargo, etc) loaded ready to tow...in order to validate my numbers using the below charts...as half tons do weigh less and if yours has the aluminum sheetmetal...it just might actually weigh in at 5,900 lbs with all of the options (not a stripper model)

You don't need to know that - the manufacturer has done most of the math for you with the payload numbers. The payload sticker on the door jamb is specific to that vehicle as it left the factory. It takes into account all the factory installed options and a full tank of gas (but no driver).

Here's the actual stickers off my door jamb:


Ford certified the truck with a GVWR of 7650, including the 1820 lbs of payload. That means as it left the factory, the truck weighed 5,830 lbs with a full tank of gas.

Since I have the Max Tow package the hitch is rated to 1130 lbs of tongue weight (I think but it's 10% of 11,300 from what I remember the last time I looked) so, yes I could come very close to the maximum the brochure says it can tow.

This is no mythical vehicle - you can walk into any Ford dealer any day of the week and order one in a similar configuration. I'm sure the other manufacturers offer similar configurations and play by simlar rules as tow ratings are pretty much standardized now. Problem is not all vehicles are configured alike and you sure could get one that looks just like mine with much less capabilities. People will see those huge #'s and think all the models will do it, but it's often an option or a few specific models.


The best thing for the OP to do is get GM's manuals on towing, look at the #s on the door jamb, and most importantly the window sticker to determine what packages it has. It may not have the towing package so it may not be able to tow much. Or it may have a maximum towing package. Or something inbetween.

[blt2ski]

I'll go with you have about 650-750 lbs for hitch wt. You also will probably NOT have a minor amount of people weight at 500 lbs! my X and I were 400 lbs, add in 4 adult sized kids, my family of 6 was over 1200 lbs! Your rig would be at GVWR before loading the HW of the trailer. so reality for me, is you rig has NO trailer towing capacity.
BUT, you can probably do 5000 to maybe 6000 lbs.....maybe.......I towed a 6500 maxed out trailer with a SW GM 3500 back in the 90's. I had 2400 lbs of payload per the GVWR less tare wt. I was usually 300-500 over the gvwr of 9200 lbs, NEVER over the axel wt ratings! I went on my merry way with my family. Not sure I would do that with your rig tho!
a 25 series 8 lug rig would be better for a what could be a larger family weight wise!

Marty

[BenK]

Here is the Ford 2011 F150 spec on 'curb' and 'payload' link and image of curb & payload chart from the link below

Ford F150 specifications

[BenK]

itguy08 wrote:
snip....

For example, I tow with a 2011 F150, Supercrew 4x4, Lariat with the Max Tow package. Not a stripper model by any stretch. According to Ford's brochure it can tow 11,200 lbs.


snip...

I'm talking MTWR...you are talking payload. Apples to oranges...but inter-related...as all ratings play in the ratings system

Using your own TV and the Ford Brochure for your TV...

Best if we had the actual weight of your TV. Both empty and fully (people, cargo, etc) loaded ready to tow...in order to validate my numbers using the below charts...as half tons do weigh less and if yours has the aluminum sheetmetal...it just might actually weigh in at 5,900 lbs with all of the options (not a stripper model)

Your TV has a GCWR of 17,100 lbs and a MTWR of 11,200 (automatic)

Meaning the generic formula to figure what trailer it is rated to tow, is GCWR >= TV + Trailer + stuff

17,100 - 11,200 = 5,900 lb TV weight. Meaning it was the curb (stripper) model. Betcha you'd have a hard time unbolting everything that is optional, after market, etc to get it down to 5,900 lbs

Meaning that unless your TV weighs in at 5,900 loaded/actual weight ready to tow...it is NOT rated to town 11,200 lbs of trailer


Yes, you 'can' tow 11,200...but maybe it is not 'rated' to tow 11,200...and that goes back to what or which TV this OEM used to derive their brochure MTWR number


Ford 2011 F150 Trailer Towing Selector Brochure
Go to page three and took images of it to post here, below


Top of the page to show the header of the page


The rest of the chart and your TV is at the bottom where I got the GCWR & MTWR numbers (confirms your post listing 11,200 MTWR)

[itguy08]

BenK wrote:

This the basis from which most all TV OEM's derive the tow ratings....but note that this is the 'stripper' model with ZERO options...other than the 'Tow Option' and one 150 lb driver. Most times, the OEM does not offer a 'curb weight' (stripper) model for sale.

I don't necessarily think this is true now that payloads are well known and tow ratings adhere to the SAE standards. Maybe back in the day it was but I think with modern vehicles it's not as shady as it once was.

For example, I tow with a 2011 F150, Supercrew 4x4, Lariat with the Max Tow package. Not a stripper model by any stretch. According to Ford's brochure it can tow 11,200 lbs.

From my payload sticker, I have 1820 lbs of payload available to me. Subtract out the 150lb reference driver that leaves 1670 lbs of payload.
At a tongue weight of 10%, that 11,200 is 1120 lbs.
At a tongue weight of 15%, that 11,200 is 1680 lbs.

Now would I load up the family and head out at max weight? Nope. But you can walk into a dealer, order that configuration all day and night and if it's just you, meet the max tow ratings very easily. For the wife and I and out 9k lb trailer it works fine.

You have to work back from payload. Take your payload, subtract out everyone's HONEST weight, an estimate of the junk you will need to take in the vehicle and the # left is the tongue weight you can put on the vehicle. Figure on 10-15% of the trailer's GVWR for tongue.

[Lantley]

In the end you numbers are more or less accurate. (Fuel is already included as mentioned) What you are finding out is that a 1/2 ton luxury SUV does not make a very good tow vehicle.
Your old F-350 is in a much more capable truck when it come to towing.

[LVJJJ]

Don't believe the sticker weight, as someone suggested. TT's seem to weigh a lot more than what's listed. Have had a dozen or more TT's over 30 years, all of them weighed more than what manufacturer said.

Had a 22' 2004 Tahoe "lite" (haha), UVW specs said 2900, scale said 4160 (with some add ons). Also a 26' 2005 Trail Cruiser, specs 3400, scale said 4800 (partially loaded so expected a few hundred pounds, but 1400??? Weigh it before you buy it. (used a certified commercial scale)

[Grit_dog]

I don’t obsess over numbers (within reason). Couple things you included as important info. You’re not trucking X country all the time or at all really. With that I’d be comfortable up to 7-8klbs TT. That’s also a big TT. You want a house on wheels or a nice place to sleep and go camping? I don’t see the need for a 30’ + TT for camping trips if your goal is camping not RVing. That can drop your weight a bunch with a smaller camper.
For ease of use I’d prefer mid 20s length and lightweight but as said above 7-8k wouldn’t bother me at all. Tongue weight is not a big deal imo. That’s what wdhs are for. Plus the air ride on your caddy will level er right up.

[theoldwizard1]

dante93gtz wrote:

Towing Capacity: 7700

Where did you get this number from ?

The real important number in the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR). That is the total of vehicle, passenger, vehicle cargo, trailer and trailer cargo.

From page 9-58 of the 2014 Cadillac Escalade Owners Manual

Gross Combined Weight Rating 14,000 lbs This is the most important thing.

Don't worry about adding tongue weight to the vehicle. The most important thing is that the tongue weight should be at least 10% of the trailer gross weight.

[kerrlakeRoo]

You dont deduct the fuel weight, its assumed you have a full tank. Put that 196 lbs back into play, but then you do have to deduct the weight of the WDH, so your net gain will be less.
You should be able to get to a 750-775 lb tongue weight based on the info you provided.

[mkirsch]

By your calculations, 672lbs is correct. It's only going to get lower as your kids grow.

Most people are surprised at how little tongue weight capacity they have with a full sized SUV once the kids are loaded up.

That puts you in a 5600lbs trailer LOADED, and you will be using up every last ounce of capacity in your Escalade. Actually you will be upwards of 100lbs overweight, because you haven't included the weight of the trailer hitch. Plus your kids will keep growing.

[BenK]

Welcome to the forum !

You will need some basic information and a few trips to the scales

Basic info needed:

• GCWR
• GAWR, front
• GAWR, rear
• Actual TV weight by axle
• Actual trailer weight (if you don't have that yet, use it's GVWR as that is that is heaviest weight it is rated for
• Actual tongue weight (if you don't have the trailer, use the brochure tongue weight and calculate the tongue percentage weight vs the listed 'dry weight'

Then the simple math using the above data

Normally suggest newbies first decide if they believe in their TV OEM's ratings system (even generic OEM Ratings system) or not. If so, then do the above...if not then academic this and just do whatever...but your comment says, I think, you do believe

Also, assume you used to just hook up and go 'cuz of owning one of the highest class pickups...and now you want to/need to figure it out to not wear out or kill your new TV

Comments embedded in red below

dante93gtz wrote:
I'm trying to best determine what my truck is (and is not) capable of hauling. We recently sold our F350 diesel in favor of something with 3 rows of seating. We bought a '14 Cadillac Escalade ESV AWD. That being said, I'm coming from the world of being able to tow most anything to now having to think about weights and capacities again. 😞

The Mrs. and I have started talking about a camper to get our young family out in the woods more easily than by tent camping. In an effort to make the most informed decision possible, I wanted to get some opinions from the forum.

I've done some preliminary research on my vehicle but based on the results, I'm concerned that either (a) I've not taken a variable into consideration, or (b) my new TV is much less capable than I originally thought.

Alright, so... I've got the basic figures listed here along with what I believe are accurate weights:

'14 Escalade ESV Weights w/ Class III hitch (in lbs.)

Curb Weight: 5982

This the basis from which most all TV OEM's derive the tow ratings....but note that this is the 'stripper' model with ZERO options...other than the 'Tow Option' and one 150 lb driver. Most times, the OEM does not offer a 'curb weight' (stripper) model for sale.

As noted by others...an Escalade is in the top tier of bling. All of those options add weight...which deducts from the MTWR (Max Tow Weight Rating) pound for pound

Then the additional stuff. Like people, pets, cargo in/on the TV,
after market stuff, etc, etc...all deduct, pound for pound, from the MTWR

My 3/4 Ton Suburban, K3500, 7.4L big block and full up option packages weighs in around 7,200 lbs with just me in it (180 lbs)

SMOG test has the official DMV form list my curb at 5,250. Wonder how much stuff would need to be unbolted and tossed to get it down to 5,250...

The big block and bigger automatic might be about 300-400 lbs more than the small block and smaller tranny..

GVWR: 7400

A half ton and worlds different from your 1 ton

Biggest difference is in the rear GAWR and is where most half tons in the lower class get into ratings trouble

Carrying Capacity incl. tongue weight: 1418


Theoretical Passenger Weight: 500 (2 adults, 3 small children + small carry-on items)

Theoretical Fuel Weight (31gal): 196

Theoretical capacity (of GVWR) for tongue
weight afer fuel and passengers: 672

The only way to know is to use the actual tongue weight. Hope your new trailer is light weight

Towing Capacity: 7700

Again, this MTWR is derived from a 'curb weight' (stripper) model

Unless your TV is a stripper, it will weigh hundreds to a thousand pounds more and that will reduce the brochure MTWR pound for pound

Weight of the camper itself aside, by my figures it looks like I should be looking for a travel trailer with a tongue weight of <672lbs, correct? That seems fairly low, considering the trailers we've been looking at are generally 700-800lbs for the tongue weight. Of course, we'll be running a WD setup but I know that doesn't reduce tongue weight.

Any advice or input based on these figures? We still have access to my father's Dodge 3500 is we *had* to use it to go camping, but we were really hoping to use the Escalade since the kids will be much less cramped inside. We don't plan on going much further than 200 miles away from home as we live very close to many of the areas we'd like to camp at.

Thanks in advance,
Brian