wfco possibly issues Bulk mode..Charge abilitys?

[lawrosa]

I have to say I just came back from boondocking.. Weekend trip only..

New camper
Wfco 8955 converter
280 watts solar
20 amp mppt
1100 watt inverter
2800 watt kohler inverter gen ( Runs A/c on eco mode) Runs a/c and 1300 watt micro at same time. ( A/C compresser already started..)

Batts fully charged when I left off solar..

Im a heavy use guy. Had two tv's running, used toaster oven, coffee maker etc.. All off inverter.

First night no big deal as solar got back most of the power I lost..

Woke up sat to 12.3 volts batts. I have 3 - 75 ah batts in parrellel. @ on camper and third is under hood of tow vehicle. It has a second batt for camper package and solely runs off 7 pin. Starting batt not affected.

So I used maybe 100 AH. Guestimate

Was hot sat so I ran gen to run a/c and charge batts. Ran 3 hours.

Sun only available for 3 hours of so as I was in the woods.. maybe 15 amp at times.

wfco did not and would not go in bulk mode. I even tried to trick it and put a load on inverter. Gen on , then flip converter charging breaker. Nope.. 13.6 charging.. ( No 14.4.. Never seen it).

When trying to trick it, it seems like it may be going into bulk mode but the wfco kicks on and off every 10-15 seconds. I think its going off on amp overload with that 900 watt draw on inverter..

Says the bulk mode should kick on when it sees 13.2 volts at wfco terminals. Problem as soon as you hit the breaker it jumps to 13.4 volts.. Seems like it will never see said 13.2 volts..


With that said with 3 hour gen run time batts looked charges @ 12.8 volts after I turned everything off. I thought I may have overcharged...

Anyway next morning batts were 11.8 volts... I dont know what happened as we hardly used much stuff as the day before after I turned off gen and put solar away..

Disappointing..

Im trying to run tests now to see how to get this f ing thing in bulk mode..

So disappointing in this new campers converter..

But they say online this thing cranks in the amps others cant at 13.6 volts..

I dont have an amp probe...

[lawrosa]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Advice "Safety" First

Find out what kind of rigamarole "a thrown code" means as far as re-setting. Some vehicles need to go to the dealer $$$$$$$$$$

See if you can get your hands on a xerox of the GM Technical Service Bulletin dealing with ECU / Alternator issues. I'm a little far from a dealer. But tell the service manager the truth "It's for someone who does not live in the USA and -desperately- needs the TSB :)" One question for the service manager "Does my system send a FIELD REPORT to the ECU?"

You are correct, loss of sense lead will result in a default voltage setting. The earliest Delco 10SI had a ludicrously high 16.4 volt default. Your comment of course makes sense.

I need to see a picture of the rear (slip ring end) of your alternator. Another favor to ask of your dealer parts department. Or at least get the factory Delphi part number for your alternator. I can do an online search from there.

Botched diagnosis is out of the question so please pardon my caution doing this.

Chevy alternators of this year truck is the standard ad244. 145 amp.

Watch this video..

ad 244 gm 145 amp alt. Parts list and breakdown.

But I dont have alternator issues. Everything is good there..

I was just bringing up the fact that I maybe can charge the camper batts from the truck 7 pin becuase GM carrys a higher voltage to said pin.. Rather then running a generator and going through the WFCO..

I will do amp tests later in the week when I get my buddys amp clamp meter.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Advice "Safety" First

Find out what kind of rigamarole "a thrown code" means as far as re-setting. Some vehicles need to go to the dealer $$$$$$$$$$

See if you can get your hands on a xerox of the GM Technical Service Bulletin dealing with ECU / Alternator issues. I'm a little far from a dealer. But tell the service manager the truth "It's for someone who does not live in the USA and -desperately- needs the TSB :)" One question for the service manager "Does my system send a FIELD REPORT to the ECU?"

You are correct, loss of sense lead will result in a default voltage setting. The earliest Delco 10SI had a ludicrously high 16.4 volt default. Your comment of course makes sense.

I need to see a picture of the rear (slip ring end) of your alternator. Another favor to ask of your dealer parts department. Or at least get the factory Delphi part number for your alternator. I can do an online search from there.

Botched diagnosis is out of the question so please pardon my caution doing this.

[lawrosa]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
That's what I get for assssssuming you had an older system. That technical announcement is absurd. Every ECU on the planet acts exactly the same way. My 1995 Dodge Spirit, needs periodic battery de-sulfation? Yes it reaches 15.5 volts and slumps to as low as (observed) 13.2 volts on a ridiculously hot 122F day in Arizona.

Voltage Slump under load is normal for these harebrained systems. It drove forum member landyacht so nuts he bypassed the ECU and installed a Transpo F540XHD, adjustable voltage regulator. Me? I would be concerned if my system charged house batteries.

For STRICTLY vehicle battery use, the ECU "A Type" regulation is just fine. Never heard complaint alarms about short VEHICLE BATTERY life. For remote house batteries, I am quite certain you will find that as compared to a thermocouple compensation regulator (meaning the old fashioned kind), the ECU will deliver about 90% of the alternator product to the house batteries. Solar voltaics on the roof and a good regulator could help you top off the batteries in that case.

DIAGNOSTICS
Verify just how "Norman Bates" an ECU VR can get check on a GM technical bulletin for "Excessively Slow Voltage Recovery" if a hall effect amperage pickup is used. GM's idea on limp home is to minimize engine loading and this MAY mean a lowered default open loop regulator setting. MoPar systems are the same way.

"Periodic Battery Desulfation" Oh god, my side hurts. One bright side (the only bright side) is that aside from faults due to connection deterioration, ECU regulators are tough. Tougher than any integral voltage regulator.

BTW, I would not try to bypass your regulator. Newer systems use a Field Report FR, and bypassing anything will generate a permanent fault code in the computer.

And thank you for the correction! Now if I can only wipe the stupid grin off my face...Desulfation...Ouch my cramp!

To bypass it I read just unplug the terminal from the alt.. It will default to constant 14.4 volts or something like that.. Will it throw a code? IDK..

The thing with mine I never seen it go into fuel savings mode and reduce voltage. Never..

[lawrosa]

joebedford wrote:
Did you push the bulk button on the WFCO?

There is no button...

[joebedford]

Did you push the bulk button on the WFCO?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

That's what I get for assssssuming you had an older system. That technical announcement is absurd. Every ECU on the planet acts exactly the same way. My 1995 Dodge Spirit, needs periodic battery de-sulfation? Yes it reaches 15.5 volts and slumps to as low as (observed) 13.2 volts on a ridiculously hot 122F day in Arizona.

Voltage Slump under load is normal for these harebrained systems. It drove forum member landyacht so nuts he bypassed the ECU and installed a Transpo F540XHD, adjustable voltage regulator. Me? I would be concerned if my system charged house batteries.

For STRICTLY vehicle battery use, the ECU "A Type" regulation is just fine. Never heard complaint alarms about short VEHICLE BATTERY life. For remote house batteries, I am quite certain you will find that as compared to a thermocouple compensation regulator (meaning the old fashioned kind), the ECU will deliver about 90% of the alternator product to the house batteries. Solar voltaics on the roof and a good regulator could help you top off the batteries in that case.

DIAGNOSTICS
Verify just how "Norman Bates" an ECU VR can get check on a GM technical bulletin for "Excessively Slow Voltage Recovery" if a hall effect amperage pickup is used. GM's idea on limp home is to minimize engine loading and this MAY mean a lowered default open loop regulator setting. MoPar systems are the same way.

"Periodic Battery Desulfation" Oh god, my side hurts. One bright side (the only bright side) is that aside from faults due to connection deterioration, ECU regulators are tough. Tougher than any integral voltage regulator.

BTW, I would not try to bypass your regulator. Newer systems use a Field Report FR, and bypassing anything will generate a permanent fault code in the computer.

And thank you for the correction! Now if I can only wipe the stupid grin off my face...Desulfation...Ouch my cramp!

[lawrosa]

PaulJ2 wrote:
My 99 Cherokee has voltage controlled by the ECM. Also has temperature sensor in the battery tray that lowers voltage as battery warms up.
I guess not bad technology for even back then.

also a hall effect sensor around the neg terminal on the starting battery to measure current I assume..

[PaulJ2]

My 99 Cherokee has voltage controlled by the ECM. Also has temperature sensor in the battery tray that lowers voltage as battery warms up.
I guess not bad technology for even back then.

[lawrosa]

Hers another better explaination of GM's RVC..

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/350

[lawrosa]

Unless the voltage regulator in the alternator has been bypassed or subverted there is no way on earth a 1117437 or 1116413 Delco regulator can be over-riden and the stator sense lead regulator bridge between the rectifier and regulator will shut down the voltage regulator

The ECM controls the voltage. There is no regulator in the alternator.

There is a second plug on the alt that goes to the ECM..

Read here. This is an updated 2015 version.. I could not find it before..

RVC GM alternator voltage control RVC through ECM

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Group 78 is a 34/78 A general motors specialty.
Unless the voltage regulator in the alternator has been bypassed or subverted there is no way on earth a 1117437 or 1116413 Delco regulator can be over-riden and the stator sense lead regulator bridge between the rectifier and regulator will shut down the voltage regulator. The PLIS / PLFS regulator plug circuit can be manipulated to increase voltage to the point of sense default which reverts the voltage regulator to an internal voltage sense condition. This usually generates a dash warning lamp and stored fault code. 14.4 is normal.

Like all Delco regs the CS series contains a thermistor in the "S" circuit that moderates voltage but the sense is limited to interior alternator temperature.

Solar panels or charging augmentation can certainly increase circuit voltage but it is certainly not a function of any Delco or Delphi voltage regulator.

[lawrosa]

Anyone with a silverado will want to read about thier charging algoritom here..

Probably why my original ac delcos lasted 11 years.. ( they were sealed)

The six modes of operation include:
• Charge Mode
• Fuel Economy Mode
• Voltage Reduction Mode
• Start Up Mode
• Windshield De-ice Mode
• Battery Sulfation Mode

https://acdelcotechconnect.com/pdf/imtn_V12I305.pdf

[lawrosa]

f the battery in the truck is a plain automotive battery it isn't intended to be run down like a gp/marine /RV battery

Well heres a story if you believe me..

That exide batt I have for the camper package is the same battery as my starting battery..

These have similar specs to the grp 24 sams club batts..

Here are the specs.. 70 ah.. Crazy right.

exide 78 dt



Ironically this is the first time seeing the charging rates on it.. I usually unplug the truck when charging off solar and when I run into town I assume the alt would charge it. But reading the specs Ill leave the truck plugged in to charge off solar or converter from now on...

Ref. Ah Capacity 20HR 70 Ah
Float voltage (27°C / 80°F) 13.5 – 13.8 V
Cycling voltage (27°C / 80°F) 14.5 – 14.9 V.

So float voltage per dekka ( who makes the duracells is the same range.

I use 13.8 to float my duracells. Exide says similar. I use 14.7 to bulk charge per dekka. Exide the same range..

Here is the dekka charge chart..

dekka charging chart

This is good to know..

As a side not my chevy charges from the BCM that controls the voltage of the alternator..

This truck has stages and sometimes it goes into a sulfation mode. I often see 15 volts wile driving.. normally 14.8 or so.. When the truck starts it runs at 14.3 volts for 30 seconds as a default voltage.

I never see lower then 14.6 normally.. Maybe 14.5 with headlights and A/C on..

With that said I get 14.5 volts at the 7 pin.. I may have been better off running my truck to charge the batterys back up then running the generator through the converter..

Im pretty sure its at least 8 gauge wire to the 7 pin. Its probably not even 15 ft I should be able to get 25 amps through that wire.

In fact I did run the truck for a brief period after I shut down the gen.. I did notice the gauge ( Digital app through wifi obdii port) read 14.3..

But how fast will the amps taper? Im not sure..It is a 145amp alternator.

Well thats my story...

I guess ill get my buddys amp meter and do a test of amps with the batts down 50%.. through truck 7 pin and through converter..

[time2roll]

The whole sensor circuit is lame to sense mode after power is applied.
Or sensor circuit should be based on amps not volts.
Poor design.