What's left of Our Progressive EMS Unit

[milo]

This is whats our EMS unit looks like after our last excursion. The box got fried. Bought it in 2009 and it has worked flawlessly up until a couple of weeks ago. No I don't know what or how, but it saved the electrical of the 5er.
As usual I checked the pedestal with our volt meter & polarity gage and all was good. Plugged the power cord in, the EMS unit clicked on, the remote showed 121 volts, 3 amps, 60 HTZ and E O but no electricity to the RV. After about 2 minutes, electricity came on through out the RV and then went off after about 30 seconds but the EMS was still showing 121 volts, 3 amps, 60 htz and E O. This repeated over & over for about 1/2 hr. Worried, I opened the cabinet and found the unit had melted and a light colored indention on the cover was extremely hot to the touch (couldn't touch finger to it for more than a second) and the wires on the RV side, the insulation was burnt and melted to the copper wire for about 1 inch up the wire. I disconnected the unit and removed it and put the junction box back in and reconnected the power cord wires to the RV wires. All worked except no EMS unit protecting the 5er.
Low & behold.... Progressive Industries has denied our warranty claim... go figure. They didn't even ask to send the unit to them, only asked for a description of the issue & a picture.
Lifetime warranty? :h

[milo]

mike-s wrote:
You were simply wasting their time trying to defraud them into giving you a free replacement. And, as has been pointed out, it's apparent what the cause was - a bad connection due to user error.

The problem is not with the unit, or the company, but with you.

YEP! ... you outed me. That was my 1st thought, after 8 years of use, screw em out of a new unit. Oh well that didn't work did it? hmmm ....well I guess I'll have to work on my defrauding skills for future manufacturers of items I use that might fail or I might damage.

Life is fantastic & getting better everyday.
Milo

[SoundGuy]

milo wrote:
They don't care what happened.

mike-s wrote:
Why should they? It's already been determined that your unit wasn't under warranty. You were simply wasting their time trying to defraud them into giving you a free replacement. And, as has been pointed out, it's apparent what the cause was - a bad connection due to user error.

The problem is not with the unit, or the company, but with you.

Your interpretation, based on what you think you know. :R It's already been established that as an older pre 2010 unit the OP's EMS was only covered by a 3 yr warranty, not the subsequent lifetime warranty, so yes the company had every right to fall back on that and decline coverage. As I read it the OP is as much concerned about the fact the company under new ownership is clearly not even interested in getting the damaged unit back so it can be examined to better determine just what did happen to it. Previous reports from many owners claiming total satisfaction in how the company has up until recently handled any issues they had with their Progressive EMS are now contradicting more recent reports appearing since the company has been sold. Additionally, the most recently published Progressive "limited" lifetime warranty contains restrictions not mentioned in the previous lifetime warranty such as that included with my own Progressive EMS. Clearly Progressive, under new ownership, has recently changed course so to suggest the OP is attempting to "defraud" the company is way over the top, as he like pretty well everyone else has been lulled in recent years by glowing reports to believe that his Progressive EMS was covered by a lifetime warranty that would take care of any potential issues his unit may ever have. This nonsense is still repeated on various forums every day and to blame the OP is ridiculous. :R My only question is why the OP, considering his dismay at Progressive's lack of interest, would buy another Progressive EMS when other manufacturers such as TRC offer similar products which would do the job just as well, arguably even better, don't come with the same warranty exclusions as do the Progressive units, and typically cost less. :h

[mike-s]

milo wrote:
They don't care what happened.

Why should they? It's already been determined that your unit wasn't under warranty. You were simply wasting their time trying to defraud them into giving you a free replacement. And, as has been pointed out, it's apparent what the cause was - a bad connection due to user error.

The problem is not with the unit, or the company, but with you.

[milo]

RVER wrote:
I have never heard of them denying warranty. WHAT do they think happened?

They don't care what happened. I stated to them in the warranty form request what happened + pictures of the unit. They denied the warranty & stated they do not repair units anymore. In 2 other separate emails I sent , I stated I didn't think it could be repaired (obviously from the pictures) but to check it out to possibly find out what had happened. 2 times their standard reply to me was.."we don't repair units anymore". 3rd email ( Hello, I don't want it repaired just check it out!) I sent em they didn't even reply back to me. New company only interested in making money, to heck with customer satisfaction. So now every chance I get to tell others of the what high quality Progressive Industries is, I do. :B


Milo

[RVER]

I have never heard of them denying warranty. WHAT do they think happened?

[SoundGuy]

milo wrote:
SoundGuy, we have completed bout 90 percent of our reinstall of the new EMS system. It was DW's preference to put the system on the outside of the cabinet.

Interesting solution, particularly since I was thinking exactly the same myself with one possible difference being to use the all-in-one hard wire EMS-LCHW30(50) which includes the display on the unit itself rather than an EMS-HW30C(50C) with the stand alone monitor. Others entertaining this same solution for themselves might also consider mounting a portable EMS-PT30X(50X) in a similar manner. Having installed my own EMS-HW30C using 30 amp connectors so I can remove it at any time I'd agree yours is a great solution! :B

[milo]

Morning ... LATEST UPDATE

SoundGuy, we have completed bout 90 percent of our reinstall of the new EMS system. It was DW's preference to put the system on the outside of the cabinet. She plans on giving it one of her one-of-kind painting to make it look more like part of the decor.
This 1st pic shows ... I wired to RV side wires, a 30 amp plug & to the power source side, a receptacle inside the cabinet and done away with the junction box & twist on wire caps.


Click For Full-Size Image.

2nd pic shows ... A 30 amp cord from the EMS unit into the cabinet to plug into to power cord & a cord with a receptacle from the unit to receive the RV plug. We went with this setup in the event there is a problem with the EMS unit, we can unplug it and plug the RV directly into the power cord outlet.


Click For Full-Size Image.

3rd & 4th pic show ...The unit mounted on the outside of the cabinet. I added rubber spacers between the unit and cabinet to allow air flow behind the unit. Also used rubber grommets to help protect the cords where the enter the cabinet. DW gave her thumbs up and can't wait to get to add her touchs to it.


Click For Full-Size Image.


Click For Full-Size Image.

So hopefully this will give us at least another 8 years of service.

Milo

[milo]

Alright everyone...thank you ...thank you...thank you. Think this has run its course. Been lots of good feed back and this thread has provided us with several different options to explore. I will post pictures of what we have decided when the replacement is completed. I thank you ...my wife thanks you... for all of your inputs.

So Mod if you wish to close this thread, I will post a new thread when the time comes.

Milo

[SoundGuy]

SoundGuy wrote:
No, I fully understand your point ... my point is that any electrical device will generate some degree of heat so given that why enclose it at all when the alternative of not enclosing it ensures that none that heat can become trapped, regardless how little it may be? Seems like a simple concept to me.

wnjj wrote:
It may seem like a simple concept but you're still not hearing me. The amount of heat that box makes will be neglible compared to the thermal properties of an RV cabinet. Of course an "enclosure" traps heat but it's the amount that matters. Keeping your heater turned up 2 degrees will make your unit warmer than one in a cabinet in a cooler RV.

It's a real stretch to assume that's what caused the OP's unit to melt. Resistive connections (which were tight) or the relay contacts are more likely the culprit.

You have no way of knowing definitively just how hot the OP's EMS may have gotten. You say "negligible" and "turned up 2 degrees" but obviously from the pic his EMS got MUCH hotter than that, hot enough to melt the EMS plastic box. Perhaps the relay contacts were the source of the problem but regardless, enclosed as it was, heat created had no way to escape and therefore only further exacerbated the situation. My point is that given this experience it only makes sense to install any replacement where it's not totally enclosed and can therefore vent any heat generated no matter how little or great it may be. Common sense - you're arguing otherwise simply for the sake of it. :R

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Of course a mouse gnawing on a black 120vac wire is rapidly self-correcting.

[wnjj]

SoundGuy wrote:
No, I fully understand your point ... my point is that any electrical device will generate some degree of heat so given that why enclose it at all when the alternative of not enclosing it ensures that none that heat can become trapped, regardless how little it may be? Seems like a simple concept to me.

It may seem like a simple concept but you're still not hearing me. The amount of heat that box makes will be neglible compared to the thermal properties of an RV cabinet. Of course an "enclosure" traps heat but it's the amount that matters. Keeping your heater turned up 2 degrees will make your unit warmer than one in a cabinet in a cooler RV.

It's a real stretch to assume that's what caused the OP's unit to melt. Resistive connections (which were tight) or the relay contacts are more likely the culprit.

[mike-s]

SoundGuy wrote:
Not outside the trailer but outside any totally sealed area

If your RV isn't totally enclosed, you're going to have water/mice intrusion issues.

Point is, it's not "enclosed", but the ability to dissipate heat. And unless you've measured the heat in whatever enclosure a unit is mounted in and compared it to the unit's rating, you don't know what the effect is.

[SoundGuy]

SoundGuy wrote:
my point is that any electrical device will generate some degree of heat so given that why enclose it at all when the alternative of not enclosing it ensures that none that heat can become trapped, regardless how little it may be? Seems like a simple concept to me.

mike-s wrote:
So, mount it outside, so it's not enclosed inside?

Not outside the trailer but outside any totally sealed area such as the cabinet the OP had mounted his fried EMS in. There's nothing to lose by locating a new replacement where it's not enclosed, essentially what I did by locating mine under the sofa. If he can't / won't and still insists on putting it inside that cabinet I'd consider adding some sort of venting to allow hot air to freely vent out. JMO. 🙂

[mike-s]

SoundGuy wrote:
my point is that any electrical device will generate some degree of heat so given that why enclose it at all when the alternative of not enclosing it ensures that none that heat can become trapped, regardless how little it may be? Seems like a simple concept to me.

So, mount it outside, so it's not enclosed inside?