Any help? hybrid front door leak

[Caroline-B]

I have a 2003 starcraft Antigua hybrid. I have had this thing torn apart, replaced floor in front, pulled front bunk door off, caulked everything, put butyl tape under hinge before putting back on, caulked all screws around door frame and frame on camper. Caulked roof, side seams, everything on outside, replaced all seals and added some. I had fixed my front bunk about 1/4 way up where water damaged it and sealed it good. Put tape over hinge and have made a cover for the top of the bunk so no water comes in at the top. So now went out to it and bunk door is wet again at the bottom. I cut back the lower part again and water came out of it. I caulked around all buttons on outside on door where bungies go after shop vacuuming the water out of the door and for a week kept doing that to suck any moisture left. It's been 90 degree's so put fans inside and during the day opened to expose to the sun. Everything got good and dry. So it rained all night and I went to check ( everything is exposed) foam core and frame and where I just cut the luan at the bottom some got left in bottom frame and IT'S WET AGAIN! What is going on? I don't know what else to do! There is some delamination starting on very bottom of door now. I'm thinking this can't be condensation causing this now. I think before I caulked around the buttons that's where water was coming in. They don't caulk them at the factory. I am a women and 62 years old out here everyday, done all the work myself for over a year for I am very knowledgeable on how to do a lot of things. What else can I do?

[slavco]

Ralph Cramden wrote:


What model and year hybrid do you have. Just about all hybrids except Forest River (Rockwood Roo/Flagstaff Shamrock, and Palomino Solaire) have some reiteration of the Lippert bunk door assembly which has evolved in design often, including Forest River's Coachmen and Surveyor hybrids. Certain designs of that door had leak issues at or around the hinge area.

One was due to the hinge design itself that would allow water under the right conditions to penetrate through the hinge pin. That would allow water to usually be found in the storage compartment or area below the door.

The other was lack of factory sealant on the hinge extrusion along the channel at the door bottom on the exterior. This would allow water to get inside of the door itself and wick up into the luan plywood substrate, which is where the bottom rot comes from. That's an easy one to find. Remove whatever they used to cover the hinge area itself on the inside when door is down, usually a piece of EPDM or vinyl. There will be 3 or 5 screws that hold the bottom channel into the door itself. If those screw heads are rusty you have water getting inside the door when its closed, and draining out of those screws.

No matter what version of the Lippert door, the bottom hinge is designed to be self draining. If water gets past the door seal and makes it to the bottom, it's supposed to then drain out the ends of the bottom assembly, hopefully on the exterior. A lot of RV manufacturers did not do a good sealing job at the ends of the assembly. When the design does it's job and the water runs out the hinge assembly, it then finds it's way inside.

The last major redesign I am aware of by Lippert was @ 2012/2013, and the doors since seem to be a lot better where leaks are concerned.

If the door leaks at the perimeter seal itself when closed, that can only be a few things. One is placement of the seal (located too far from edge of door) or areas where the seal is loose where its held on by 3M tape (water gets behind seal). The other is the door is warped in the center and the seal makes no contact. The third is not enough pressure applied by whatever latch system the RV manufacturer used. ( those are not provided by Lippert as part of the assembly, but added by the RV manufacturer).

Although pricey, Lippert sells the seal material. You will not find it on their website and have to call them, and hope a moron does not answer the phone which is a tall order from what I have experienced dealing with Lippert. It's close to $3 a running foot. Ask for D seal with double flange for a securelock bunk door. It may take a few tries as most times the Lippert rep will not even know they make those doors.

Thanks for posting that Ralph, you're right the design is flawed in the older models, especially the bottom portion around the hinge. Under certain conditions, water just gets right into the front storage compartment, which in turns leads to rot everywhere. I have a 2003 Travelstar 21sso, and had to replace the front half of the floor, as well as rebuild the front piece (under the front bed) wall and bottom half of the front bunk door. What a pain in the arse! That said, our first trip out, we drove through some light rain, and when we got to our destination, there was quite a bit of water in the front storage area! Ugh!

It seems this only happens when driving in the rain, so the wind pressure pushes the water in through the bottom hinge. There are no leaks at all when stationary, even in the heaviest rain storms. What I do now is jam a wide piece of rubber inside the hinge channel, so far it's been a success, a couple of drops do get in occasionally, but no where near as bad as it used to be.

Cheers
Slav

[Ralph_Cramden]

NCSUgeology wrote:
crmlcat - I would love to know what you're using. It sounds like my problem as well. you can send me a private message if you want. Did it fix your leak problem? Thanks!

What model and year hybrid do you have. Just about all hybrids except Forest River (Rockwood Roo/Flagstaff Shamrock, and Palomino Solaire) have some reiteration of the Lippert bunk door assembly which has evolved in design often, including Forest River's Coachmen and Surveyor hybrids. Certain designs of that door had leak issues at or around the hinge area.

One was due to the hinge design itself that would allow water under the right conditions to penetrate through the hinge pin. That would allow water to usually be found in the storage compartment or area below the door.

The other was lack of factory sealant on the hinge extrusion along the channel at the door bottom on the exterior. This would allow water to get inside of the door itself and wick up into the luan plywood substrate, which is where the bottom rot comes from. That's an easy one to find. Remove whatever they used to cover the hinge area itself on the inside when door is down, usually a piece of EPDM or vinyl. There will be 3 or 5 screws that hold the bottom channel into the door itself. If those screw heads are rusty you have water getting inside the door when its closed, and draining out of those screws.

No matter what version of the Lippert door, the bottom hinge is designed to be self draining. If water gets past the door seal and makes it to the bottom, it's supposed to then drain out the ends of the bottom assembly, hopefully on the exterior. A lot of RV manufacturers did not do a good sealing job at the ends of the assembly. When the design does it's job and the water runs out the hinge assembly, it then finds it's way inside.

The last major redesign I am aware of by Lippert was @ 2012/2013, and the doors since seem to be a lot better where leaks are concerned.

If the door leaks at the perimeter seal itself when closed, that can only be a few things. One is placement of the seal (located too far from edge of door) or areas where the seal is loose where its held on by 3M tape (water gets behind seal). The other is the door is warped in the center and the seal makes no contact. The third is not enough pressure applied by whatever latch system the RV manufacturer used. ( those are not provided by Lippert as part of the assembly, but added by the RV manufacturer).

Although pricey, Lippert sells the seal material. You will not find it on their website and have to call them, and hope a moron does not answer the phone which is a tall order from what I have experienced dealing with Lippert. It's close to $3 a running foot. Ask for D seal with double flange for a securelock bunk door. It may take a few tries as most times the Lippert rep will not even know they make those doors.

[bikendan]

NCSUgeology wrote:
crmlcat - I would love to know what you're using. It sounds like my problem as well. you can send me a private message if you want. Did it fix your leak problem? Thanks!

crmlcat has never posted since that one post, 7 months ago.
May no longer be on the Forum anymore.

[camperforlife]

I use to have the 03 195CK Antiqua and the front door always leaked. It went back to the factory twice. The second time the front door had to be replaced because of delamination and they replaced the old style screw latches to the new swing latches. That seemed to to the trick for the next two years until I traded it.

[NCSUgeology]

crmlcat - I would love to know what you're using. It sounds like my problem as well. you can send me a private message if you want. Did it fix your leak problem? Thanks!

[crmlcat]

Just bought a used Jayco Jayfeather that leaks front and back fold downs. Did a thorough systematic test to find leaks. Examined all rubber molding which appeared to be in good condition (one of which appeared to be new). Used hose to water door starting at bottom and worked my way up to the top. (Need two persons to do this, one wetting and one watching). No leaks found until water was placed on top of the foldup. We pulled the tent over our heads while the door was locked to try and see where the leak was and immediately saw light leaks between the door and the rubber seal.
Since rubber seals did not appear to be bad checked edge of door by looking down the edge from one edge to the other. What I found was edge bowed outward in the middle which meant tight contact at the corners but gaps in between. Coincidentally was going to test my fix to this problem this morning when I went to this forum and saw your post. If this sound like it could be your problem as well let me know and I will get back to you.
I talked to a rubber seal manufacturer yesterday who will be sending me a sample of material I think may correct the problem and found another product in the store which I will try today to hopefully confirm my theory of how to resolve this problem. From all my research on posts like this it appears to me that people have been having the seals replaced with no or limited success which makes sense based on what I see happening with my camper.
Fingers crossed....hope this works.
09-16-17 Completed our first test and bed ends no longer leak. This was only a pre-test using similar material to the product sample being sent to me but not of the same configuration. This was an adhesive backed weatherseal but I did not use the adhesive strip for this test as I did not want to have to have to scrape it off when I get my product sample. Was going to post the product names and manufacturers of everything I use but was not sure if that violated the rules of this forum???? Will update when I test my sample.

[slavco]

Caroline-B wrote:
I have a 2003 starcraft Antigua hybrid. I have had this thing torn apart, replaced floor in front, pulled front bunk door off, caulked everything, put butyl tape under hinge before putting back on, caulked all screws around door frame and frame on camper. Caulked roof, side seams, everything on outside, replaced all seals and added some. I had fixed my front bunk about 1/4 way up where water damaged it and sealed it good. Put tape over hinge and have made a cover for the top of the bunk so no water comes in at the top. So now went out to it and bunk door is wet again at the bottom. I cut back the lower part again and water came out of it. I caulked around all buttons on outside on door where bungies go after shop vacuuming the water out of the door and for a week kept doing that to suck any moisture left. It's been 90 degree's so put fans inside and during the day opened to expose to the sun. Everything got good and dry. So it rained all night and I went to check ( everything is exposed) foam core and frame and where I just cut the luan at the bottom some got left in bottom frame and IT'S WET AGAIN! What is going on? I don't know what else to do! There is some delamination starting on very bottom of door now. I'm thinking this can't be condensation causing this now. I think before I caulked around the buttons that's where water was coming in. They don't caulk them at the factory. I am a women and 62 years old out here everyday, done all the work myself for over a year for I am very knowledgeable on how to do a lot of things. What else can I do?

I have the sister model of your camper 2003 21SSO TravelStar and also had to redo the 1/4 of the bottom bunk in the front as it was completely rotted out. Luckily no water since!

I'm assuming you see water coming in when the bunk is closed and the trailer is not being towed? Have you replaced the seals around the bunk door already? Mine were in pretty rough shape so I replaced them all.
Do you have any pictures of the bunk door you can share? It would help if we can see what it looks like. Also, I assume you sealed the outside of the bunk door - where the white fiberglass (filion) and the aluminum frame meet, just above the hinge.

[Caroline-B]

Yep, caulked all lights

[jrdebono]

Have you re-caulked the running light fixtures? That is what I did to seal up the front bunk door on my Palomino.

[bikendan]

Caroline-B wrote:
What exactly do you mean by a seal test? I did spend a lot of time with a water hose on a step ladder to simulate rain and found a few problems and noticed how much water can enter through the hinge on bunk. As far as water getting into the bunk core and it's frame itself, it's a plain mystery to me.

Google Sealtech Manufacturering.
They have a list of RV dealers and repair shops that performs this pressure test, with their equipment.

[Caroline-B]

What exactly do you mean by a seal test? I did spend a lot of time with a water hose on a step ladder to simulate rain and found a few problems and noticed how much water can enter through the hinge on bunk. As far as water getting into the bunk core and it's frame itself, it's a plain mystery to me.

[donn0128]

Seal test may be your best friend right now.

[Oasisbob]

I despise leaks that are not obvious. You have my sympathy. If it were me I would learn how to pressurise the interior and mix up some soapy water and look for bubbles. What eles can one do?