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Trailer crash on mountain road.

rockhillmanor
Explorer
Explorer
Yet but another horrific lose of control of RV as seen from the dash cam of a semi-truck.

VIDEO http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2017/8/29/Watch-The-Moment-A-Trailer-Trashes-A-Ford-Excursion-At-High-Sp...

BUT I defy anyone to come to 'this' RV'ers defense, like in so many other threads, and say we don't have enough info to say one way or the other that RVer's like this have NO business on the road.

1. Obviously a high altitude road from the view of drop off on the right side
2. PASSING a semi on a 2 lane mountain road forcing semi to pull over.
3. SPEEDING to pass the semi
4. Too large of an RV for TV.
5. All caught on dash cam of who he was passing.

And anyone would ever wonder WHY he crashed this RV and flipped over. :R

Driver had is family and kids in that truck and had he flipped in the other direction it would have been all over for all of them.:(

We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned,
so as to have the life that is waiting for us.

90 REPLIES 90

myredracer
Explorer II
Explorer II
Towin Toys wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
Down hill towing a TT can be a dangerous combo, I know from personal experience!

People that are considering a RV do your self a favor and start out with a 5er!!!


I've been towing up and down steep grades with curves for many many years with no issues whatsoever. And all were/are bumper pull TT's. If set up right they tow just fine and are safe.


^^^ Totally agree.

I've towed our TT thousands of miles on all sorts of twisty, steep and sometimes narrow mountain roads in WA, OR & CA with our TT and never had a problem. Never a road twisty or steep enough for me - can't get enough of it. It's all about having things set up properly and the right equipment. We installed shocks on the TT which really helps and they should be standard on all TTs.

IMO some think their TTs are well set up when there's actually more they could or should do (or maybe shouldn't be doing as well).

Towin_Toys
Explorer
Explorer
Cummins12V98 wrote:
Down hill towing a TT can be a dangerous combo, I know from personal experience!

People that are considering a RV do your self a favor and start out with a 5er!!!


I've been towing up and down steep grades with curves for many many years with no issues whatsoever. And all were/are bumper pull TT's. If set up right they tow just fine and are safe.
KMO
'17 Chevy Silverado High Country 2500 HD Duramax 4x4 CC
'18 Northwood Desert Fox Toy Hauler
'16 Polaris RzR 900
'11 KTM 990 Adventure
'06 Softail Deuce 98"
'08 KTM 300 XC-W(e)

T18skyguy
Explorer
Explorer
One of the most prolific craftsman in the world was Paul White. Among many things, he is the only person to hand build a 1/10 scale fully functional jet engine in his shop. Over the shop door was a sign, it read "Never get in a hurry" Getting in a hurry has brought me a lot of grief, and that driver as well.
Retired Anesthetist. LTP. Pilot with mechanic/inspection ratings. Between rigs right now.. Wife and daughter. Four cats which we must obey.

falconbrother
Explorer II
Explorer II
Max62, I have nothing but, respect for you.

myredracer
Explorer II
Explorer II
bikendan wrote:
I agree on the assessment on the Anderson for larger trailers.
IMHO, it's a great choice for 25' or less trailers.
But I don't think it's a good choice for 30' or bigger trailers.


^^^ Agree with this. Really poor choice for a WDH for a 35' TT IMHO.

One of the WDHs with integral sway control like Equal-i-zer, Reese DC, etc. would have been a good choice. Also, generally not a good idea to get a hitch shop or RV dealer to recommend and/or install any WDH. I like the Reese DC because of it's pro-active self-centering action and it wants to snap back into line with the truck. From what I've read, the Anderson is only good up to around 600 lbs of TW. The TW of the Keystone 31BH is likely around 1200-1500 lbs. I would guess the Excursion was well over it's payload capacity with passengers, 130 lb dog and camping related "stuff".

We've got the Reese DC and I have towed thousand of miles all over the place up & down the west coast and never feel sway and always feel 100% in control from interstates to twisty mountain roads. But it's more than just a WDH brand/type. It's about setting it up properly, having correct spring bar ratings, having correct tire pressure in TV & TT tires, having LT tires on the TV, having the TT level to slightly nose down, etc. - it's an overall package of different things. Took me a full season of playing around with all the variables to get it optimized and wasn't until I adjusted the TT to slightly nose down that I finally got it.

Curious if the owner or anyone else at least ever checked the before & after front fender height or inflated tires to correct psi? It's also always good idea to take a TV & TT to a scale and get weights to know where you stand on wts. & capacities. It's also a good idea for all TT owners to learn how to properly set up a WDH. Excellent sticky info. in the towing forum.

Glad that nobody got seriously injured or worse. Far too many unhelpful comments in the numerous threads out there as well as some sick individuals in this world.

CavemanCharlie
Explorer II
Explorer II
.....

bikendan
Explorer
Explorer
I agree on the assessment on the Anderson for larger trailers.
IMHO, it's a great choice for 25' or less trailers.
But I don't think it's a good choice for 30' or bigger trailers.
Dan- Firefighter, Retired:C, Shawn- Musician/Entrepreneur:W, Zoe- Faithful Golden Retriever(RIP:(), 2014 Ford F150 3.5 EcoboostMax Tow pkg, 2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255 w/4pt Equalizer and 5 Mtn. bikes and 2 Road bikes

RinconVTR
Explorer
Explorer
I posted in another thread on here about the SUV having too much tongue weight and improperly adjusted WDH by view of the rear end sagging. As well as the back of the trailer heavily loaded to the point the bumper or rack was bent.

I think I'm dead nuts, spot on in my observation and assumptions now knowing some actual facts to add in.

The owner mentions his hitch was cracked and he got a new Anderson put on just prior to this event. His SUV has a payload of 1700lbs, and his trailer tongue weight was likely 1200-1500lbs.

The Anderson in my experience is the worst option for large TT's. Actually, I've never once come across someone using the Anderson on a trailer that large until now. It just cannot transfer enough weight when its used on large trailers. With larger trucks, sometimes this is ok, but not an SUV.

Thus, without significant weight distribution shown by the sagging rear, and the family all loaded in the SUV, plus a very 130lb dog, and "stuff"...that SUV was certainly overloaded.

Root cause? Well, there isnt just "one" root cause to point at. There's a few small to medium issues that all contributed to the heavy sway that was not recoverable.

Towing at max (as this rig was, if not over) does not allow for much error. There is little forgiveness for an improperly loaded and set up trailer. It can be done very safely, but every detail matters.

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
Down hill towing a TT can be a dangerous combo, I know from personal experience!

People that are considering a RV do your self a favor and start out with a 5er!!!
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

Grit_dog
Nomad III
Nomad III
Btw that trucker was awesome for stopping to help.
What he should have done as well was immediately hammer his brakes and get you out ahead of him and flash you that you were clear.
If you could have used the whole road sooner when pulling out of it , it may have made the difference.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Grit_dog
Nomad III
Nomad III
Thank you Max for posting this and putting to rest all the ninnies' speculation. And glad to hear everyone walked away.

Having been in similar situations before, everyone should pull the "what the driver did" out of his post and digest it.
Regardless of why the trailer started wagging, he did EVERYTHING correct from my experience.
Hit trailer brakes. Check (but they didn't work)
Try to use the whole road and "follow the sway". Check (didn't have the whole road to use).
Accelerate out of it, last resort. Check ( downhill and it didn't work but was the last option).

So Max, to help others, what do you think the root cause of the sway starting was?
Obviously responsible driver, replaced bad hitch just 122 miles ago.
Like to hear what you think started the mess.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Gulfcoast
Explorer
Explorer
Glad none of you were injured.
RV'ing since 1960
Dodge Cummins Diesel
Mega Cab
Jayco Travel Trailer

mike-s
Explorer
Explorer
2012Coleman wrote:
Max62 wrote:
I tapped my TT electric brakes and nothing happened.
Around 53 seconds, you can see the TT tail lights come on, but either the right side wheels were not in contact with the ground, or there was minimal contact.
Brake lights and brake control are two different circuits. Seeing brake lights doesn't mean the brakes were working.

2012Coleman
Explorer
Explorer
Max62 wrote:
I tapped my TT electric brakes and nothing happened.
Around 53 seconds, you can see the TT tail lights come on, but either the right side wheels were not in contact with the ground, or there was minimal contact.

Not judging your actions, glad you presented the real information - any reflection on lessons learned? Do you have thoughts on what you will do differently in the future?

Reflecting on lessons learned is a good exercise - something I learned in the military, and the business world. If your intention in posting on here was to educate, then I for one would welcome that presentation.

IMO, that truck driver may have assisted you at the scene, but if you think about it, he also did you a great disservice by releasing his dash cam video for all the world to bloviate about and ridicule. I'll never understand the need of some to post links to crashes like this in order to open up such a discussion without regard to the actual event, or those affected by it.

Glad everyone is OK - hope your family is recovering both mentally and physically, and will soon get back to camping - if that is in your future.

Good luck.
Experience without good judgment is worthless; good judgment without experience is still good judgment!

2018 RAM 3500 Big Horn CTD
2018 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS