California Non-Commercial Class-A Questions

[AMG1978]

My 35' pull trailer has a GVWR in excess of 10,000LB, so I have decided I want to go get my California Non-Commercial Class-A license (to add to my Class-C and Class-M). FYI my TV is a 2012 F-250 6.7L PSD, and I am well within specs on the TV for my TH.

I was planning to go get the Class-C and Class-A handbooks at my DMV down the street (I saw the PDF's online and HTML, but I like to hold and flip pages, re-read, highlight, etc. and don't want to print on my printer). I was then planning to take the written test and get my permit. For taking the behind the wheel test, I have a close friend who has his commercial Class-A that can go along with me. I was thinking to make my life much easier (and much more likely to pass) I would rent a pull flatbed trailer with a 10,000+ GVWR, preferably short too. I just need to find a place in San Diego that rents these for non-commercial use.

How does all this sound? Am I missing anything?

Here's a question I had though that I didn't find any info on yet. Does this non-commercial license change the way that my points are calculated, punishment enforced, and publicly reported to insurance? Right now if I attend traffic school, the point is present, but it is non-chargeable (non-visible) to the insurance company and I don't see a raise in my rate. Does any of this process change for me?

[Diesel_Camper]

Also, looks like your non-commercial vehicle that requires an endorsement or Class A or B (Commercial or Non) license is considered a "Commercial vehicle"; you can see the text of law makes no distinction if you're operating with a class c and 5th wheel endorsement or Class A or B no matter if commercial or non-commercial license.

California Vehicle Code 15210:
(b) (1) “Commercial motor vehicle” means any vehicle or combination of vehicles that requires a class A or class B license, or a class C license with an endorsement issued pursuant to paragraph (2), (3), (4), or (5) of subdivision (a) of Section 15278.

[Diesel_Camper]

AMG1978 wrote:



Also the DUI is .04 even when in your own vehicle when you have a Commercial license,all under federal guidelines.

These are the reasons that I surrendered my Commercial Class A license when I retired after having that license for more than 40 years.

AMG1978 wrote:



Also the DUI is .04 even when in your own vehicle when you have a Commercial license,all under federal guidelines.

These are the reasons that I surrendered my Commercial Class A license when I retired after having that license for more than 40 years.

According to the text of law (vehicle Code 23152D) "(d)?It is unlawful for a person who has 0.04 percent or more, by weight, of alcohol in his or her blood to drive a commercial motor vehicle, as defined in Section 15210"

Per the text of law and several conversations with CHP officers, the .04 applies only when operating a vehicle that is considered commercial (which could include your non-commercial combination if a higher level of license is required). The CHP guys have said this is a very common misconception.

[Lexx]

Here's a screen capture of the California handbook that shows what you can tow with a class C license.

For example, my F450 has a GVW of 14k lbs. My fifth wheel has a UVW of 8895 lbs and a GVW of 10995.

Per the regs, I should be fine with a class C license because my fifth wheel is between 10k and 15k lbs, and my combined GVW of both vehicles (24,995) is under 26k lbs.

[toolguy1964]

Make sure you bring someone that has a Class A or Non Commercial Class A with you when you take the driving test.
The DMV in my city didn't tell me that when I went to talk to them about getting my Non Commercial Class A. I went all the way to West Sacramento with my 43' Toy Hauler and F-450 the day of the driving test and was turned away.
Don't have the TH or the F-450 now. Downgraded to an F-250 with a 35' TT.
Good Luck to you.

[AMG1978]

jmtandem wrote:

i am in the same boat as the OP. i was thinking about using a flat bed if i can find one to use, it was be alot easier then my big TH.
someone said that using a flat bed is not an RV so it would have to be commercial. its CA so everything is not always logical, but the non commercial is for a trailer exceeding 10,000 it does not say anything about it having to be an RV. so i don't get why a heavy duty flat bed would not work. my concern was when backing up, with my TH i am good withe the mirrors but with a smaller trailer or my boat i prefer to look over my right shoulder out the back window, the hand book does not say what way the DMV wants this done. keep us updated with what you do.

I would go to DMV with a flat bed or horse trailer as horse trailers also typically have a high GVWR for their size and see if the DMV cares. If not you are home free. If they say it has to be a travel trailer then come back next time with your trailer.

Yeah that would work if I could find a single heavy duty rental place that rents pull trailers beyond 9990lb gvwr. Looking still

[jmtandem]

i am in the same boat as the OP. i was thinking about using a flat bed if i can find one to use, it was be alot easier then my big TH.
someone said that using a flat bed is not an RV so it would have to be commercial. its CA so everything is not always logical, but the non commercial is for a trailer exceeding 10,000 it does not say anything about it having to be an RV. so i don't get why a heavy duty flat bed would not work. my concern was when backing up, with my TH i am good withe the mirrors but with a smaller trailer or my boat i prefer to look over my right shoulder out the back window, the hand book does not say what way the DMV wants this done. keep us updated with what you do.

I would go to DMV with a flat bed or horse trailer as horse trailers also typically have a high GVWR for their size and see if the DMV cares. If not you are home free. If they say it has to be a travel trailer then come back next time with your trailer.

[jareddustin]

i am in the same boat as the OP. i was thinking about using a flat bed if i can find one to use, it was be alot easier then my big TH.
someone said that using a flat bed is not an RV so it would have to be commercial. its CA so everything is not always logical, but the non commercial is for a trailer exceeding 10,000 it does not say anything about it having to be an RV. so i don't get why a heavy duty flat bed would not work. my concern was when backing up, with my TH i am good withe the mirrors but with a smaller trailer or my boat i prefer to look over my right shoulder out the back window, the hand book does not say what way the DMV wants this done. keep us updated with what you do.

[FrankoToo]

FrankoToo wrote:
You do not mention what the gvw of the trailer actually is, only that it is greater than 10k. If it is 15k or under, you do not need a non commercial class A, only an endorsement on your C license which is a written test only.

Frank

My apologies on the above. I missed the fact the OP is pulling a TT, not a FW. This is straight from the DMV website.

A Noncommercial Class A license is required if you tow:

a travel trailer weighing over 10,000 lbs. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) which is not used for hire.

[jmtandem]

Check registration of the flatbed or horse trailer and it will be "permanent trailer identification" which makes it property carrying not recreational. PTI is $10 for 5 years. My 5ver reg renewal is $310 a year in CA.

I think the OP is looking for a trailer to take the driving test that is smaller than his fifth but heavier in gross then 10,000 pounds. I am not sure I can see DMV arguing that a horse trailer has to be commercial and can never be considered 'non commercial' since many that have horses are transporting them in a trailer in a purely recreational non commercial manner.

But, virtually all pickup trucks in California regardless of use or size are registered commercial for some reason so maybe horse trailers and flatbeds are not considered recreational to the DMV.

[cmeade]

jmtandem wrote:
If a flatbed doesn't work you might rent a horse trailer that grosses over 10,000 pounds.

Check registration of the flatbed or horse trailer and it will be "permanent trailer identification" which makes it property carrying not recreational. PTI is $10 for 5 years. My 5ver reg renewal is $310 a year in CA.

[jmtandem]

If a flatbed doesn't work you might rent a horse trailer that grosses over 10,000 pounds.

[AMG1978]

toolguy1964 wrote:
After much research and asking questions at the DMV as well as the CHP, I came to the conclusion that there is much confusion as to what Class of license is needed when towing a 43', triple axle, 15k+ lb. 5th wheel toy hauler. CHP says one thing, DMV says another, etc. So, I just took my Non Commercial Class A written, passed 100% and I will be scheduling the driving portion this next week. Unfortunately, not all DMV offices (mine included) has the capability to give the driving test so I will have to go to West Sacramento to take it. I did, however find out one very important piece of information that everyone else missed. If you are in an accident, driving or towing a vehicle that your current class of license doesn't permit, your insurance company can deny paying the claim(s). That's not to say they won't but they have the right to deny it because you were not properly licensed to drive/tow that particular vehicle. My insurance broker explained this one to me. Just something else to consider.

Good info. As I stated from the beginning, I do plan on getting this non-commercial Class-A. It sounds like fun and I want to be fully covered.

What I was looking for initially was confirmation that non-commercial does not get the same 1.5 point hit and be prohibited from traffic school like the commercial does. I guess that is true, so I am happy.

The last thing I need to find out for certain is if I can rent a flatbed 10,000+ gvwr pull trailer to take my test with. A previous poster said they will consider me commercial if I do, but I'd like to see that in writing somewhere.

[toolguy1964]

After much research and asking questions at the DMV as well as the CHP, I came to the conclusion that there is much confusion as to what Class of license is needed when towing a 43', triple axle, 15k+ lb. 5th wheel toy hauler. CHP says one thing, DMV says another, etc. So, I just took my Non Commercial Class A written, passed 100% and I will be scheduling the driving portion this next week. Unfortunately, not all DMV offices (mine included) has the capability to give the driving test so I will have to go to West Sacramento to take it. I did, however find out one very important piece of information that everyone else missed. If you are in an accident, driving or towing a vehicle that your current class of license doesn't permit, your insurance company can deny paying the claim(s). That's not to say they won't but they have the right to deny it because you were not properly licensed to drive/tow that particular vehicle. My insurance broker explained this one to me. Just something else to consider.

[wgriswold]

I have a table downloaded from the DMV website called License Classes License Requirements, subtitled Noncommercial License Classes. It states that with a class C license you can tow

"A single vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less..." and

"If the towing vehicle weighs 4,000 lbs., you may tow a trailer coach not exceeding 9000 lbs. gross, trailer coach or 5th wheel travel trailer under 10,000 lbs. GVWR when towing is not for compensation, 5th wheel travel trailer exceeding 10,000 lbs. but not exceeding 15,000 lbs, when towing is not for compensation.

The same document says a class B license is reqired for towing a housecar over 40' but not over 45' with endorsement.

There is no mention of an endorsement for a class C. Perhaps the class B is a class C with the endorsement for longer trailers?

The reference I wrote on the document I downloaded is: Recreational trailer endorsement, RSTR 41.

From what I can get from this document is that the OP needs nothing is his trailer weighs less than 9000 lbs. and a Non-Commercial Class A if it weighs over 9000 lbs. If he had a 5th wheel he would be good to go with his class C.