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Topic: Don't know why these aren't offered here

Posted By: Mike Up on 08/30/14 04:08pm

I, myself, do not care for the limited headroom at the corners of an A-frame hard walled camper. Therefore, they aren't appealing to me as a consumer.

I never understood why makers build limited and cramped A frame designs instead of this design, which is essentially the same but with full height roof corner to corner. This 4 wall + roof design is what I'd consider. It would be really great in a 16' to 18' box.


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Posted By: RoyB on 08/30/14 04:46pm

That is pretty neat. I have a feeling however if an air conditioner was roof mounted it would not be as easy to lift with one hand as shown in the video hehe...

Roy Ken


My Posts are IMHO based on my experiences - Words in CAPS does not mean I am shouting
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Posted By: Golden_HVAC on 08/30/14 05:01pm

RoyB wrote:

That is pretty neat. I have a feeling however if an air conditioner was roof mounted it would not be as easy to lift with one hand as shown in the video hehe...

Roy Ken


If the roof is 100 or 120 pounds, and it is spring assist to lift, then you can just install additional spring assist to lift the 97 pound air conditioner. .

Or do what A-Liner does and install a package terminal air conditioner in the counter someplace, and it does not lift with the roof. Look up PTAC and you can see how they are built. While most are 220 volts, you can get them in 120 or find a window air conditioner that does not take in air from the sides, but instead takes in air from the back wall, and blows out the back as well.

It is easy enough to overcome the air conditioner problem.

Fred.


Posted By: qtla9111 on 08/30/14 05:14pm

Especially in times of "fuel economy" you would think this would be all the rage. Remember the Hi-Lo and the Hi-Lo fifth wheel?


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Posted By: lfloom on 08/30/14 05:53pm

Trail Manor is bringing out a new trailer that is similar to the HiLO, but really, why not just buy the smallest Trail Manor?

Rise Trailer


Posted By: mikebreeze on 08/30/14 06:42pm

Neat trailer, neat video. Looks easy to set up.


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Posted By: rexlion on 08/30/14 10:27pm

This concept was built and sold here, but apparently it wasn't popular enough so they stopped making it.... the 2008 Fleetwood Tacoma. It goes down like a normal popup, but when the top is raised all four sides were hardside instead of canvas. Here's one for sale in IL, with pictures:
A Fleetwood Tacoma for sale on CL
I actually have the sales brochure as a .pdf file on my computer, because I was thinking hard about buying one back then.


Mike G.
--for now, using a cargo trailer for camping--
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven... (Ecclesiastes 3)
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Posted By: Less Stuff on 08/30/14 11:26pm

The Pennine Artemis only has 74 inches(188 cm) of interior headroom. So it is low through out.

Even a 6 footer could hit his head if a roof Air Conditioner were installed.

A frames are better for standing headroom in the center at least.


DG
Former user name: "Lots of Stuff"
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Posted By: Mike Up on 08/30/14 11:31pm

rexlion wrote:

This concept was built and sold here, but apparently it wasn't popular enough so they stopped making it.... the 2008 Fleetwood Tacoma. It goes down like a normal popup, but when the top is raised all four sides were hardside instead of canvas. Here's one for sale in IL, with pictures:
A Fleetwood Tacoma for sale on CL
I actually have the sales brochure as a .pdf file on my computer, because I was thinking hard about buying one back then.


Not really, the Tacoma used the Fleetwood crank lift system which was a big negative as lift systems fail. Plus it was very expensive and small for what it was. The camper in the video has a full bed, full enclosed bathroom w/shower, and L-dinette. Much more comfortable than the smaller Tacoma.

But it had the same wall configuration.

I feel it died because of it's expense and cramped interior living.

Using struts instead of the expensive troubled fleetwood lift system, having a bigger box width wise and length wise, and using a side mounted AC system would had made a huge difference to consumers as far as expense and livability.


Posted By: lasttruck on 08/31/14 08:05am

Nice concept. I wonder what the US price would be.


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Posted By: ElBesoBlanco on 08/31/14 09:36am

I almost bought the Tacoma but could not talk myself I to the floor plan. I hear people frequently talk about the Aframe design as cramped but my 6'2" spouse doesn't feel that way. We go in to sit and sleep, not walk around- so it's never noticeable that he can't stand in the corners - that's where the sofa is anyway. When he sits on the sofa or dining bench, the bubble windows give head clearance so there's no need to tilt ones head for fear of bumping it - plenty of head space LoL

It's a mental hurdle. I've had mine a few years and still sit inside and wonder how it feels as roomy as it does when it appears to be so small on the outside. Of course I misplace it next to the big rigs but at least it's protected by those large windbreaker next to me! Haha

If the Pennine were available on the market, I sure would look hard at those! Don't care for the floor plan but like it alot better than the Tacoma!


Greetings from eastern Washington!
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Posted By: Mike Up on 08/31/14 09:47am

ElBesoBlanco wrote:

I hear people frequently talk about the Aframe design as cramped but my 6'2" spouse doesn't feel that way.

When he sits on the sofa or dining bench, the bubble windows give head clearance so there's no need to tilt ones head for fear of bumping it


I don't know how he can stand it. The ones I went in, demanded I tilt my head or WHACK. When I sat at the far end of the dinette or the sofa, I had to stick my head into the curved window. Very un-nerving and uncomfortable. I felt like a giraffe in a circus train car. [emoticon]
[image]


Posted By: rexlion on 08/31/14 01:17pm

I had thought that your main attraction to the Pennine was the combination of pop up roof and hard walls. Now I understand that there were other factors.

Some A-frame builders offer a 'high wall' model, which gives a few more inches of head room. Aliner and Chalet even have dormers now, for tons of head space at the ends. But yes, I understand your concern.

My Aliner is set up with a full time bed in back (regular mattress) instead of the 'sofa' across the back. And sitting along the side wall at the front dinette is no problem at all.


Posted By: Wakita46 on 08/31/14 06:04pm

I would have considered it before I bought my Aliner. I suspect the weight and tongue weight would be way too high for my TV though.


Posted By: ElBesoBlanco on 08/31/14 08:23pm

Mike, that cartoon is hilarious...you description made me chuckle!


Posted By: lasttruck on 09/01/14 10:09am

I'm only 6', but find our Chalet to have plenty of headroom.

Our old Alpine, had the bubbles which I did not have to take advantage of for height.

It all comes down to the floor plan and use.


Posted By: Mike Up on 09/01/14 01:07pm

ElBesoBlanco wrote:

Mike, that cartoon is hilarious...you description made me chuckle!


[emoticon] [emoticon]

Our daughter loves Dumbo and that scene seemed so fitting. [emoticon]


Posted By: Ex-Tech on 09/02/14 10:27pm

My hard-side Palomino works well for me.


Posted By: tatest on 09/03/14 08:36pm

If you think there is a market, start up a company to build it. Businesses get started on the "why don't they" questions.

I've seen hard-side folders with pull out bunks and all walls hard, from 60's or 70's in a couple diiferent campgrounds here, but nothing recently other than TrailManor in the "open by hand" category. Smallest HiLo models were similar size, but whole different category on price and weight.

[image]

* This post was edited 09/13/14 08:06pm by tatest *


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Posted By: rbpru on 09/04/14 09:06am

Trail Manor, A liner and Chalets are all great units; but the sad fact is you can buy a lot of gas for the price difference between them and a TT of similar floor footage. Hence, its sales will likely be limited. Like Airstream TTs this is a unique market.

It certainly will appeal to those who require a compact camper and easy towing.


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Posted By: mileshuff on 09/04/14 09:54am

Hi-Lo and Trail Manor both make similar trailers in the USA. I tend to think the market for such is far bigger in Europe than in the USA. With gas being about $8.50 a gallon in the UK small light trailers make more sense.


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Posted By: donrebyct on 09/12/14 06:14pm

There was a folding wall trailer in the 60s. I believe the name was Rollahome, or something like that. I remember seeing some over the years, and thought that was a neat concept. I wanted to buy one that I saw while in school in the 70s, but it sold before I could get my act (money) together.
I'm sure there is a web site dedicated to the trailer. I need to check.
Don


Posted By: Mike Up on 09/14/14 12:41am

Basecamp also had a nice Apache style hard side Pop Up but it was about $30,000 and went out of business rather quickly. I feel if it weren't so expensive, they'd still be around. trailmanor I think is pushing it also, but their campers are bigger with more options so people are willing to pay more.


Posted By: sushidog on 09/15/14 03:32pm

rbpru wrote:

Trail Manor, A liner and Chalets are all great units; but the sad fact is you can buy a lot of gas for the price difference between them and a TT of similar floor footage. Hence, its sales will likely be limited. Like Airstream TTs this is a unique market.

It certainly will appeal to those who require a compact camper and easy towing.


You are correct. You van buy a lot of gas for the difference between a regular TT and my Aliner - but you can't pull a TT with a 4 cyl car like I can my Aliner. In fact I towed my Aliner well over 40,000 miles (My Chevy Cobalt tow vehicle now has 291,000 miles so I decided to retire it from towing) with no problems whatsoever, returning 22-26 mpg depending on speed and terrain. The 3/4 ton diesel I now have gets about 17mpg towing it. So over the 40,000 miles of towing I saved about $2,400 in fuel costs, compared to if I had been towing with my current truck (which I just purchased to pull a larger trailer for FT use in a few years.)

So the cost of buying, insuring, maintaining (I just spent $700 to have all my diesel fluids and filters changed - wow) and repairing this truck would also have had to be taken into consideration, which is many times the typical fuel savings. Then there's the trailer storage issue for many who aren't allowed to store their TT at home, but can easily fit an Aliner in their carport or garage. This can be $100 a month or more in some areas.

Just another perspective, but buying, insuring and maintaining a seperate TV is an expensive proposition for many who only have one or two small commuter cars. Now if you already own a truck, then the extra $5,000-$10,000 or so these expensive hardsided PUPs will initially cost (if purchased new) may not make financial sense. Of course one could always purchase a good, lightly used Aliner like I did and save 1/2 of this difference up front.

Chip


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Posted By: Dream Girl on 09/16/14 10:57am

sushidog wrote:

rbpru wrote:

Trail Manor, A liner and Chalets are all great units; but the sad fact is you can buy a lot of gas for the price difference between them and a TT of similar floor footage. Hence, its sales will likely be limited. Like Airstream TTs this is a unique market.

It certainly will appeal to those who require a compact camper and easy towing.


You are correct. You van buy a lot of gas for the difference between a regular TT and my Aliner - but you can't pull a TT with a 4 cyl car like I can my Aliner. In fact I towed my Aliner well over 40,000 miles (My Chevy Cobalt tow vehicle now has 291,000 miles so I decided to retire it from towing) with no problems whatsoever, returning 22-26 mpg depending on speed and terrain. The 3/4 ton diesel I now have gets about 17mpg towing it. So over the 40,000 miles of towing I saved about $2,400 in fuel costs, compared to if I had been towing with my current truck (which I just purchased to pull a larger trailer for FT use in a few years.)

So the cost of buying, insuring, maintaining (I just spent $700 to have all my diesel fluids and filters changed - wow) and repairing this truck would also have had to be taken into consideration, which is many times the typical fuel savings. Then there's the trailer storage issue for many who aren't allowed to store their TT at home, but can easily fit an Aliner in their carport or garage. This can be $100 a month or more in some areas.

Just another perspective, but buying, insuring and maintaining a seperate TV is an expensive proposition for many who only have one or two small commuter cars. Now if you already own a truck, then the extra $5,000-$10,000 or so these expensive hardsided PUPs will initially cost (if purchased new) may not make financial sense. Of course one could always purchase a good, lightly used Aliner like I did and save 1/2 of this difference up front.

Chip


I agree 100% !!!
I wanted Aliner too, but can't find model that is big enough to accommodate 4 adult comfortably.
I liked this concept...

[image]


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Posted By: donrebyct on 10/06/14 06:21pm

What is that? I've never seen one before. Looks like a great concept.

I have a correction from a post a few days ago. The 60s folding hardwall trailer was the Rolite. Check them out on Google. It was a good concept that needed refining. I have no idea how much they cost new, but there are a few still around.

Don


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