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When did DEF become required ?

viajante
Explorer
Explorer
Thinking of upgrading to a DP. I want to avoid having to deal with DEF. What year models did it become a requirement ?
24 REPLIES 24

moisheh
Explorer
Explorer
The new FL Cascadia Revolution tractors can get over 8 MPG. Big fleets say they are getting better mileage. However the reliability of the new systems is questionable.

Moisheh

Tntman
Explorer
Explorer
According to what I have read, engine manufacturers say you get better fuel mileage due to the increased horsepower and torque, if you want to believe it. The problem I see is the cost to replace the system. On a 2007 with the regen system, the cost according to a factory rep is about $9,000. I do not know the cost to replace a DEF system.
Those are some of the reasons I purchased in 2003 that has a 2002 chassis with NO pollution required equipment. In 2003 the EPA required motorhome chassis manufacturers to add a cat converter and an EGR valve.
I get 8.5 to 9 miles per gallon towing a 6000 pound Hummer. I AM REALLY HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL WHO WANDER ARE NOT LOST,
Mike, Jill and our dog Goshe
Our Booger dog is with us in a custom urn, miss ya Boogs
2003 Tiffin Phaeton, Roadmaster tow products, 2016 Jeep Cherokee
Good Sam, SKP, FMCA F292654

Mr_Mark1
Explorer
Explorer
mdamerell, the fresh air is for everybody. Most large cities across the country have some type of smog.

Safe travels,
MM.
Mr.Mark
2021.5 Pleasure Way Plateau FL Class-B on the Sprinter Chassis
2018 Mini Cooper Hardtop Coupe, 2 dr., 6-speed manual
(SOLD) 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach, 45 ft, 500 hp Volvo
(SOLD) 2008 Monaco Dynasty, 42 ft, 425 hp Cummins

mdamerell
Explorer
Explorer
When I started to drive semi in 1995 I would get 6.5 mpg on average with a cab over truck. When Kenworth introduced the T600 they got around 8 mpg and everyone thought that was great. A classic Peterbilt 379 or Kenworth W900 would average 4-5 mpg.

Since then the EPA has messed up the diesel engine and after aerodynamics and now ULSD we are back to fleet average of 6.5 mpg and diesel costs $4 a gallon not $1 a gallon.

Volvo claims a savings of around $3000 a year due to an 8% increase in fuel economy. I've not seen it and we use more DEF than the engineers claimed we would. I think it's a net zero situation. We still have a couple of pre EPA engine trucks left in our fleet 750,000 plus miles and the engines run better than most of the new ones. Less head aches but the new ones sure ride better.

The DEF regen units adds over $5,000 to the initial cost of the truck not to mention the repair bills.

Other than LA being able to breath I'm not sure it is worth the cost for the rest of the country.
2012 Sundance 3100RB w/Reese Goose Box
2004 Ford F350 6.0 L PSD, CC, DRW, long bed, B&W drop ball hitch, Firestone Ride-rite air bags.

Deano56
Explorer
Explorer
wolfe10 wrote:
I would be quite surprised if the cost of DEF (particularly if purchased at the pump) would not be more than off-set by the better fuel mileage.

Same as gasoline cars when the catalytic converter came out in 1975.

The DPF and DEF allow the engine to be run dirtier/more power and let the equipment downstream clean it up.
how much increase is there?I would think the independent drivers would know their cost since they are paying for both fuel and def, that's what they tell me

AikenRacer
Explorer
Explorer
I kind of had the same concerns. But after buying our new mh and using DEF, it isn't a big deal at all. Like earlier posted. It is fairly cheap and goes a long way. Really no problem for me at all.
2012 Tuscany 42RQ tag
2005 Silverado 2500 w/ piggy back golf cart

mdamerell
Explorer
Explorer
DEF at the pump is about $2.80 a gallon which is cheaper than buying the 2.5 gal jug at Auto Zone for $14.99.

The DEF pump nozzle has a built in shut off that will only open when it's inserted into the neck of the DEF tank to try and prevent people from pouring DEF in the fuel tank. There is no such protection when pouring from the jug.

My semi runs about 461 miles a day and I add about 5-6 gallons every 2-3 days (when it gets to 1/2 tank, 13 gal tank) So we use about 1 gal of DEF per 275 miles. The Cat, Detroit and Cummins are about the same consumption rate.
2012 Sundance 3100RB w/Reese Goose Box
2004 Ford F350 6.0 L PSD, CC, DRW, long bed, B&W drop ball hitch, Firestone Ride-rite air bags.

Ivylog
Explorer III
Explorer III
Most engine built after December 31 2009 require DEF BUT some manufactures bought extra 2009 engines so even a 2011 MH might have a 09 engine.
This post is my opinion (free advice). It is not intended to influence anyone's judgment nor do I advocate anyone do what I propose.
Sold 04 Dynasty to our son after 14 great years.
Upgraded with a 08 HR Navigator 45โ€™...

wolfe10
Explorer
Explorer
I would be quite surprised if the cost of DEF (particularly if purchased at the pump) would not be more than off-set by the better fuel mileage.

Same as gasoline cars when the catalytic converter came out in 1975.

The DPF and DEF allow the engine to be run dirtier/more power and let the equipment downstream clean it up.
Brett Wolfe
Ex: 2003 Alpine 38'FDDS
Ex: 1997 Safari 35'
Ex: 1993 Foretravel U240

Diesel RV Club:http://www.dieselrvclub.org/

Deano56
Explorer
Explorer
I've heard many independent truck drivers that come to our plant to load up say, the extra cost in DEF hurts their pocket book, but they are doing tens of thousands of mile per year. The DEF does reduce emissions but, I think motorhomes should have been excluded from the mandates, due to them not being the cause of our pollution problems.

Mr_Mark1
Explorer
Explorer
2oldman wrote:
wa8yxm wrote:
Do not know about Cats.. Never researched them to see how much good they do.
I sure know when I'm driving behind an old vehicle without it.


I have a 1964 car with no CAT and no seatbelts that I have owned for 16 yrs..... the good ole days. The automatic windows work without the key and you can change the gears (no column lock).

And, let me say, I can't leave that car running in the garage for 5 seconds without smelling the effects of no CAT (6.25 liter V-8).

MM.
Mr.Mark
2021.5 Pleasure Way Plateau FL Class-B on the Sprinter Chassis
2018 Mini Cooper Hardtop Coupe, 2 dr., 6-speed manual
(SOLD) 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach, 45 ft, 500 hp Volvo
(SOLD) 2008 Monaco Dynasty, 42 ft, 425 hp Cummins

2oldman
Explorer
Explorer
wa8yxm wrote:
Do not know about Cats.. Never researched them to see how much good they do.
I sure know when I'm driving behind an old vehicle without it.
"If I'm wearing long pants, I'm too far north" - 2oldman

wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
Mr.Mark wrote:
It's funny, I remember when people were going crazy when the catalytic converters came out in 1975..... and fully implemented in '79-'80. Same happened with shoulder seat belts with the buzzers.


Do not know about Cats.. Never researched them to see how much good they do.

Seat belts I do know about.. They not only save lives but in some cases prevent accidents in the first place.. I have sent many troopers to many accidents and in many of them seat belts would have helped and in at least one prevented it completely, 2 people died and a 3rd needed clean underwear in that one (I got to talk to #3, he was in the vehicle BEHIND the two who died).

AIR bags, however, CAUSE INJURY.
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times

msmith1199
Explorer
Explorer
Mr.Mark wrote:
Mr. Dave, we bought the first year coach with the particulate filter on the 2007 chassis (2008 coach). We have had zero problems with it. DEF came out in 2010 if I'm not mistaken and our new coach will have it. I'm not concerned. The word on the street is the DEF units get a little better fuel mileage.

We have no smoke come out on heavy hill climbs. The regeneration cycle happens once about every 10,000 miles. There is a light on the dash to tell me the process is starting/happening.

If you want a totally emission-free diesel vehicle, go 2006 or earlier. It's funny, I remember when people were going crazy when the catalytic converters came out in 1975..... and fully implemented in '79-'80. Same happened with shoulder seat belts with the buzzers.

Go with the environmentally friendly units. Save a tree. LOL! (just kidding). Buy and drive what you like, this is America.

A side note: Before catalytic converters, the Los Angeles smog was horrendous. You couldn't see houses off the I-10 Freeway, especially, in San Bernardino, CA. There is still some smog but 95% better. Low emission vehicles are important for our health.
MM.


Yes, I remember going into the gray haze in Los Angeles that was always present down there. However, reduced car emissions was only part of that. Much of that air was cleaned up by closing down almost all manufacturing and sending those jobs to other Countries who now have the dirty air.

2021 Nexus Viper 27V. Class B+


2019 Ford Ranger 4x4