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 > Supplemental Brake... Necessity or Preference

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stevelv

Living on the island

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Posted: 06/21/07 10:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So here's a technical question

If a manufacturer rates their braking system for the GCWR of the MH (that's the weight of the MH PLUS the weight of the toad) then can braking distances be shortened by having a supplementary braking system operating on the toad?

* This post was edited 06/21/07 11:02am by an administrator/moderator *

rvten

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Posted: 06/21/07 10:13am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Looking at that Readybrake Break away system. Not sure I could find a place to drill through the fire wall on our G6 without hitting something. No clear passage through engine compartment.

I wanted the Pontiac dealer to make a hole in fire wall for my toad lights and break away. He really did not want to do it.

So I ended up running wires through doors hinge area and engine hood to front end when ready to tow.


Tom & Bonnie
Crossville, TN.
Aspect 29H 2008 Type C
Ford Flex SEL 2010
There is NO B+


JohnnyT

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Posted: 06/21/07 11:33am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

stevelv wrote:

So here's a technical question

If a manufacturer rates their braking system for the GCWR of the MH (that's the weight of the MH PLUS the weight of the toad) then can braking distances be shortened by having a supplementary braking system operating on the toad?


First I do not think there are many Motorhomes with brakes rated to full GCWR...

I believe that supplemental brake "can" shorten the stopping distances under some circumstances... The question is how much and under what circumstances... And it would depend a great deal on which supplemental brake system... Since many of the supplemental brake systems have user settings which will vary the amount of braking force.

Supplemental Brakes are not the panacea for accident avoidance...I do believe that no amount of added braking force will overcome driver errors due to inattentiveness, fatique or mistakes in judgment. Or add any predictable protection due to actions of other vehicles, road hazards, or road conditions.

I do believe that aside from failure of the supplemental brakes which is possible that the addition of a supplemental brake system can add a safety margin.

JohnnyT Moderator

bacollins

Lawrenceburg, IN

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Posted: 06/21/07 12:41pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JohnnyT wrote:

stevelv wrote:

So here's a technical question

If a manufacturer rates their braking system for the GCWR of the MH (that's the weight of the MH PLUS the weight of the toad) then can braking distances be shortened by having a supplementary braking system operating on the toad?


First I do not think there are many Motorhomes with brakes rated to full GCWR...

I believe that supplemental brake "can" shorten the stopping distances under some circumstances... The question is how much and under what circumstances... And it would depend a great deal on which supplemental brake system... Since many of the supplemental brake systems have user settings which will vary the amount of braking force.

Supplemental Brakes are not the panacea for accident avoidance...I do believe that no amount of added braking force will overcome driver errors due to inattentiveness, fatique or mistakes in judgment. Or add any predictable protection due to actions of other vehicles, road hazards, or road conditions.

I do believe that aside from failure of the supplemental brakes which is possible that the addition of a supplemental brake system can add a safety margin.

JohnnyT Moderator


Excellent Johnny. [emoticon]


'92 Itasca Sunflyer P series Chevy
'99 Wrangler Toad
'99 Cherokee Toad
'05 KTM 450 EXC
'85 Honda VF500F Interceptor
'92 Honda 750 Nighthawk

jahapp

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Posted: 06/21/07 07:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

magicbus wrote:

jahapp wrote:

I invested in a braking system Johnny. The pendulum stuck on and the light did not come on. Cost me $2300 for a complete brake job.I have elected not to use it any longer. The other side of the coin is I have seen 2 separate instances of toad underneath mh for lack of a system.

Aside form the fact that I never felt the need for one, this is probably the single biggest concern I have... I simply do not trust them. I am a bit confused by the last statement about the "toad underneath mh"... I guess this implies that the tow bar was not properly leveled with the RV hitch[emoticon]

Dave

When the mh panic stops, the rear end raises up, the front end of the toad drops down and the toad slides around sideways and ends up underneath the back end of the mh.

magicbus

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Posted: 06/21/07 09:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jahapp wrote:

When the mh panic stops, the rear end raises up, the front end of the toad drops down and the toad slides around sideways and ends up underneath the back end of the mh.
Wow! You have actually had this happen to you???!!! I simply can't imagine how a toad could end up under and RV unless they were way out of height alignment - and even then I would think the sheer weight of the MH should prevent this. Could you post more information on your rig? Maybe in a different thread as this is a bit off-topic but certainly of interest as it could happen to anyone - even if their Brake Buddy fails in a panic stop.

Dave





topflite51

In The Desert of Nevada

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Posted: 06/22/07 06:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Dave, he didn't say it happened to him.


">David
Just rolling along enjoying life
w/F53 Southwind towing a 87 Samurai or 01 Grand Vitara looking to fish
Simply Despicable ">
Any errors are a result of CRS.">

rvjer

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Posted: 06/22/07 08:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Well, IMO, an Aux brake system is a necessity. I understand that not all people think that is true and that is their privilege, but I KNOW my rig stops shorter and with less pedal effort with the brake system then without it. I have tested this under controlled situations to prove the point. Also having the ability to adjust the braking force from the dash of the M/H is a great bonus. Yes, any system can fail, but how many do you hear of in relation to how many are being used? My proportional system does need to be installed but it can be moved from one vehicle to another and I have done exactly that. The "brake in a box" systems are good in a panic situation and work fine if you don't mind installing and uninstalling it each time you use it, or if you change toads often it might make more sense.


Jerry
2003 35-E Bounder
2006 Saturn Vue FWD toad


Sully2

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Posted: 06/27/07 08:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jahapp wrote:

magicbus wrote:

jahapp wrote:

I invested in a braking system Johnny. The pendulum stuck on and the light did not come on. Cost me $2300 for a complete brake job.I have elected not to use it any longer. The other side of the coin is I have seen 2 separate instances of toad underneath mh for lack of a system.

Aside form the fact that I never felt the need for one, this is probably the single biggest concern I have... I simply do not trust them. I am a bit confused by the last statement about the "toad underneath mh"... I guess this implies that the tow bar was not properly leveled with the RV hitch[emoticon]

Dave

When the mh panic stops, the rear end raises up, the front end of the toad drops down and the toad slides around sideways and ends up underneath the back end of the mh.


Sprung chassis...sure does dip in the front / raise in the rear...but just how much you thing an air ride chassis is going to do that??? Complex test made easy: Go hook your toad on and then manually inflat your REAR airbags to their MAXIMUM height...then go and look at the different in "altitudes" between the coach and the toad!

If MY toad "slides around sideways"...Im first going to be breaking a 7000 pound test cable ( I tow a 3800 lb jeep!). Im also going to be totally wrecking a 10,000 pound rated tow bar..and although I havent measured it..I may also be breaking my 6000 pound test "break-a-way" chain???
Possible to do? Sure. Chances of it happening..? NADA!

Ive been thru 2 of those ( and hope it never happens again) "We bought the farm" emergency stops...and Im not the slightest bit afraid of stopping my rig ( MY RIG..as its presently configured)


presently.....Coachless!...
2002 Jeep Liberty
2016 Ford Escape


Sully2

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Posted: 06/27/07 08:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rvjer wrote:

Well, IMO, an Aux brake system is a necessity. I understand that not all people think that is true and that is their privilege, but I KNOW my rig stops shorter and with less pedal effort with the brake system then without it. I have tested this under controlled situations to prove the point. Also having the ability to adjust the braking force from the dash of the M/H is a great bonus. Yes, any system can fail, but how many do you hear of in relation to how many are being used? My proportional system does need to be installed but it can be moved from one vehicle to another and I have done exactly that. The "brake in a box" systems are good in a panic situation and work fine if you don't mind installing and uninstalling it each time you use it, or if you change toads often it might make more sense.


I agree with you 100%. Me personally..I WOULD NOT own and tow with a gasser chassis RV without using some sort of supplemental braking system. AND..I wouldnt be towing anything heavier than approx what I presently tow

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