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RE: Homeless migration to RVs creating problems

We all have the same opportunities in this country. Not hardly. How not hardly? How so? They do not have a brain to think for themselves? Stay out of trouble? We have access to so much information on the internet than ever before. Is ignorance an excuse now, gee "I didn't know"? No will to pay attention in school? No access to teachers or counselors in our schools? No books to study? Go to Church for support? No opportunity to choose their friends wisely and stay out of trouble? No opportunity to work one job? Two jobs to get ahead? Get roommates to save money? I did that much of my life. Volunteer? Use the Library? Use the many programs available to help people? Get counseling? People do not have access to birth control? No access to school, community college? No opportunity to joining the military as a means to get out of a bad situation, earn a paycheck, have a bed, a meal, and training? No opportunity to join the Reserves for extra income? And yes, I did that too. Both active duty and reserves AND worked 40 hour work week and took classes at night. No access to move anywhere in this country for work and better living conditions? I have moved over 28 times back and forth all across this country in my life for jobs. Not by choice, for survival. Pull the poor me card? The race card? I also lived in the projects with my single mother that had 3 kids after our father left us. Guess we could have just stayed there the last 50 years and say we had "no opportunity" to get out and created 3 more generations of kids on the government dole. This is the greatest country on Earth, "not hardly" excuse does not cut it, neither does "poor me" anymore.Accepting this as factual requires people to accept personal responsibility for their failures in life. Isn't going to happen.
westernrvparkowner 11/21/19 01:04pm General RVing Issues
RE: ? Becoming a KOA Work Kamper for $

Add up the hours worked X even minimum wage. There is no way you can come out as a workamper vs a minimum wage job working anywhere else and just paying for you site out of your earnings. No cleaning toilets, nobody knocking on your door after your work hours, no unreasonable management, no extra hours without pay. B.O.We pay wages from hour one. Plus, you get a site, you get electricity, water and cable TV. Plus you don't have to commute to and from work. What minimum wage jobs offer a better deal? Most minimum wage jobs do require doing a few less than glamorous duties, some even include cleaning toilets. BTW, cleaning toilets isn't all that bad a duty. No one bothers you. It's out of the weather. You move at your own pace and you don't have to do it with bare hands.
westernrvparkowner 11/21/19 12:59pm General RVing Issues
RE: Homeless migration to RVs creating problems

If you bounced a check, why would the IRS be involved? That is a civil matter between you and whomever you wrote the check to. And the IRS doesn't put liens on vehicles or businesses or even your personal accounts without a long legal process. For a bounced check to result in IRS liens the check would have had to been payment for severely past due taxes and if that was the case, the problem wasn't so much the bounced check but that your taxes were years in arrears. So either a relatively small amount of money ($12,000) completely decimated your business and life for many months to years, or there is much more to the story. I'm not sure what it matters other than to disparage my character but I will send you a PMDon't care about any pm. When people claim personal experiences to support their positions and those experiences don't make sense I point out the descepancies. end of story.
westernrvparkowner 11/20/19 09:12pm General RVing Issues
RE: Homeless migration to RVs creating problems

You sure have a lot of reasons for failure, but none of them seem to include "I screwed up.". I have never been sentenced court ordered money management but I doubt that the course taught that if you can't rent for that recommended 30% you should live on the street. My "screw up" that put me in the class was I trusted a banker when he told me the $12,000 cashes check was good. The class, at my expense, and paying the cost and penalty got the IRS to release the license for my trucks in 3 months instead of the year the lawyer said it was likely to take. (The only checks I have bounced in my life where behind that deal Even using your ridiculous assumption that a minimum wage worker can only work 40 hours, not a minute more, in a month A very small percentage of min wage workers will get over 38 hrs a week. Most would be closer to 20 than 40. a new BMW or even a car of any kind. But in this area public transportation is very limited. If you don't put room in the budget for a car you won't keep the job.If you bounced a check, why would the IRS be involved? That is a civil matter between you and whomever you wrote the check to. And the IRS doesn't put liens on vehicles or businesses or even your personal accounts without a long legal process. For a bounced check to result in IRS liens the check would have had to been payment for severely past due taxes and if that was the case, the problem wasn't so much the bounced check but that your taxes were years in arrears. So either a relatively small amount of money ($12,000) completely decimated your business and life for many months to years, or there is much more to the story.
westernrvparkowner 11/20/19 01:55pm General RVing Issues
RE: Homeless migration to RVs creating problems

But a quick internet search found many apartments in Independence Missouri in the $600 a month range. A frugal single person can afford that on minimum wage. A couple where both are making even the minimum wage wouldn't even have to be frugal. Housing costs are not the cause of homelessness in your world. I do not think housing prices in this area have outpaced inflation near as much as west coast. Ok, what percentage of your income do you (or people in your income range. I don't know you, but if somebody is making house payments I figure they are renting from bank) spend for rent? In my court ordered personal money management class we where told it should not be over 30%. So that means a income of over $1800 a month, or 240 hours of minimum wage work. And the add the idea most employers in this area that pay minimum wage do not allow anybody to get close to 40 hours a week. And most minimum wage workers understand they are unlikely to work the same hours day to day let alone week to week. This makes it hard to take a 2nd job. ("Sorry, I can't work these hours, I have to work...) Fact is over a decade ago, lots of people that had middle class jobs lost their jobs, houses etc. And at that time, a couple of graduating classes came into a labor market where jobs that paid enough to pay the loans where rare. Most of the people that lost the high paying jobs went back to work, but took a pay cut. So they are in lower priced housing, crowding out the lower income. This will be a issue for a generation. True, I don't live in your world. In my world all the homeless are not college grads. The police are not lurking around every corner looking to violate my rights and steal my money. And the rich aren't out to get me, they just don't care about me one way or the other. However I understand that is how you see things in your world. Are the worlds different? Not all homeless are collage grads, but unexpected decisions can cause homelessness. The wrong health insurance policy can put even somebody pretty well off into bankruptcy. That may not take your house, but if you get sick again before the time limit between bankruptcy? The police? Under civil asset forfeiture rules you have to prove you did nothing wrong, not the "innocent until proven guilty" we were taught to expect. And a large percentage of the population do not know the laws are in force. Many when you try to explain ether start waving the Constitution saying it can't happen. Others say "good, crime did not pay" without understanding that if the criminal did not need to be convicted, then you would not need to be convicted to lose your stuff. Rich don't care about me? Not as long as I pay my taxes, and can be manipulated into voting for the people that will keep them from paying theirs. Fact is class war has gone on since the start of capitalism, but for the last 40+ years the rich have been winning.You sure have a lot of reasons for failure, but none of them seem to include "I screwed up.". I have never been sentenced court ordered money management but I doubt that the course taught that if you can't rent for that recommended 30% you should live on the street. The minimum wage in Missouri is $8.60. A forty hour work week will earn the minimum wage worker $1490.00 a month (40 hours x $8.60 x 4.333 weeks per month). Using an on line calculator to determine take home pay in Missouri that minimum wage worker will take home $1292.00. Even using your ridiculous assumption that a minimum wage worker can only work 40 hours, not a minute more, in a month that is enough money to pay a $600.00 rent, pay the water and electric bill and eat. No there isn't money left over for a thousand dollar smartphone, a European vacation every six months, a new BMW or even a car of any kind. But you aren't living on the street. The good news is this mythical minimum wage worker won't have anything to lose when the big bad civil forfeiture police come knocking on their apartment door.
westernrvparkowner 11/20/19 08:28am General RVing Issues
RE: Homeless migration to RVs creating problems

True, I don't live in your world. In my world all the homeless are not college grads. The police are not lurking around every corner looking to violate my rights and steal my money. And the rich aren't out to get me, they just don't care about me one way or the other. However I understand that is how you see things in your world. But a quick internet search found many apartments in Independence Missouri in the $600 a month range. A frugal single person can afford that on minimum wage. A couple where both are making even the minimum wage wouldn't even have to be frugal. Housing costs are not the cause of homelessness in your world.
westernrvparkowner 11/19/19 02:19pm General RVing Issues
RE: Homeless migration to RVs creating problems

However, the homeless crisis is less about all that, IMO. IDK what the causes are. All the mentally ill congregate in certain cities?? People getting lazier? IDK It's sure as heck not the economy and hasn't been for a long time. The recent phenomenon of old RVs becoming urban homeless shelters is, every year there are more/newer RVs that still are "useable" but not road worthy. (Back in the whatever 70s-90s, there weren't the number of RVs that were old, because it was a newer industry.) Makes sense, I'd live in a leaky RV with a bad engine before living under a bridge!I think you may have hit the nail directly on the head. It is probably made even worse by the fact that disposing of a used RV usually involves a cost. You can take a car or truck to a wrecking yard and get a few bucks. An RV, not way. They don't want it. Take it to a landfill operation and they are going to have both requirements and conditions (no paper inside, No refrigerant in the refrigerator or AC units, only take them on the third Wednesday of certain months, etc) and will charge a fee, which in my experience is in the hundreds of dollars. Better to give it away and it eventually makes it way to the homeless communities usually by someone who thinks they are doing a good thing. The homeless problem is one without a solution. Like others have said, most are either mentally ill, highly addicted to drugs and alcohol or just plain willing to live that life. Our society is not willing to involuntarily commit the ill and addicted. We can't suddenly make someone want to work and pay rent. We increasingly decide as a society to not rigorously enforce vagrancy laws and the like and when we do, it just moves the problem, it doesn't provide a solution. Even giving people housing doesn't work, our history with public housing proves that. For most communities that have severe homeless problems the actually driving force is climate. It's more pleasant to be homeless in San Francisco than it is in Chicago. And once again society has decided that changing climate is also bad public policy, so homelessness in cities such as LA, San Francisco, Portland etc. will continue without an answer. I think you are overlooking the large percentage the homeless that are employed, but with low pay, student loans, high cost child care for unpredictable hours, rent is out of their budget.Unless your definition of employed includes begging on the street corner or collecting large amounts of cans for the deposit the vast majority of homeless are unemployed and unable to be employed. The family burdened by student loans living on the streets makes for great TV, so that is what the news seeks out. Making them the needle to look for in the giant homeless haystack. there is no interest in putting the actual poop in the street, mentally ill, aggressive panhandling, street person on television. It doesn't draw viewers, doesn't elicit sympathy and doesn't raise funding for the homeless activists. It just hardens public opinion against the homeless. Such situations as you described are a tiny percentage of the homeless population.
westernrvparkowner 11/19/19 11:10am General RVing Issues
RE: Homeless migration to RVs creating problems

However, the homeless crisis is less about all that, IMO. IDK what the causes are. All the mentally ill congregate in certain cities?? People getting lazier? IDK It's sure as heck not the economy and hasn't been for a long time. The recent phenomenon of old RVs becoming urban homeless shelters is, every year there are more/newer RVs that still are "useable" but not road worthy. (Back in the whatever 70s-90s, there weren't the number of RVs that were old, because it was a newer industry.) Makes sense, I'd live in a leaky RV with a bad engine before living under a bridge!I think you may have hit the nail directly on the head. It is probably made even worse by the fact that disposing of a used RV usually involves a cost. You can take a car or truck to a wrecking yard and get a few bucks. An RV, not way. They don't want it. Take it to a landfill operation and they are going to have both requirements and conditions (no paper inside, No refrigerant in the refrigerator or AC units, only take them on the third Wednesday of certain months, etc) and will charge a fee, which in my experience is in the hundreds of dollars. Better to give it away and it eventually makes it way to the homeless communities usually by someone who thinks they are doing a good thing. The homeless problem is one without a solution. Like others have said, most are either mentally ill, highly addicted to drugs and alcohol or just plain willing to live that life. Our society is not willing to involuntarily commit the ill and addicted. We can't suddenly make someone want to work and pay rent. We increasingly decide as a society to not rigorously enforce vagrancy laws and the like and when we do, it just moves the problem, it doesn't provide a solution. Even giving people housing doesn't work, our history with public housing proves that. For most communities that have severe homeless problems the actually driving force is climate. It's more pleasant to be homeless in San Francisco than it is in Chicago. And once again society has decided that changing climate is also bad public policy, so homelessness in cities such as LA, San Francisco, Portland etc. will continue without an answer.
westernrvparkowner 11/19/19 08:32am General RVing Issues
RE: Homeless migration to RVs creating problems

Prices have always increased on homes in the long run. Supply and demand. A lot of homes in small towns with lack of jobs can be bought dirt cheap. For a retired person who does not depend on employment this can be a good deal. There are several list of states and towns that are the best places to retire along with the most expensive places to retire. Illegal immigrants compound the housing issue but certain people choose not to address the issue. Until these people are voted out I don't see things changing. I don't know where you live, but we have been buying this house from the bank for 28 years. We bought when the market was pretty stable, but then came the depression that the prior administration built a fire under. (Anybody that has looked at the county's history would know that the same things that were done by FDR that extended that depression for an additional three (maybe more) years is what was done again.) Today, I could sell out home and not get back what we paid for it in cash value (not even thinking about the interest over near 30 years). Everybody wants a piece of the rich old people that only worked hard for years to live so "easily" now. If you perchance think I may be a little bitter, that just means that you are observant.There is virtually no way a home you purchased 28 years ago has not appreciated in value provided you have done reasonable maintenance. I just don't believe you have your facts correct.
westernrvparkowner 11/18/19 02:00pm General RVing Issues
RE: campground to avoid

Must have been REALLY Awful ....1 night in Sept and its now mid NOV x2 Really strange I am terribly SORRY that I have attracted the ire SENIOR members since you are experts in the trade and I don`t need your krap I have been busy since my return late Oct. I WAS HOPING TO SAVE SOME UNEXPECTING RV`ER THE TROUBLE Here is the situation: Paid my registration and fee-upon leaving Old man says "now get the F outta here" and gives the fingerwave. I just shook my head and told the son to keep him on a short chain. Residents I spoke with were actually nice and friendly and several Glad to see you took action to make sure the situation didn't escalate(insert sarcasm emoji). While anything is possible, I find it hard to believe that the only conversation was you saying "hi, my name is X, here is my money for the night" and the owner's reply was as you stated. Bet the truth is there is a bit more that happened prior to the owner's final comments. Like the previous poster noted, the evidence is starting to build against you.
westernrvparkowner 11/18/19 08:24am General RVing Issues
RE: Homeless migration to RVs creating problems

It just amazes me that as a private land owner, someone can park their RV on my property, and squat there and I can't boot them off? Is that not, by definition, trespassing? Landowners in your county are actually experiencing that, and can't do anything about it? Mike.. Laws vary from place to place.. I worked, for a period, for a towing company. We towed many vehicles off private property. Either at the request of the property owner (If the vehicle was not authorized on that property) or the police (If it violated some laws about abandoned vehicles on private property) . Now I can not tell you how to go about getting a vehicle towed where you live. but I can tell you there is a way. and where I worked the vehicle owner of record was responsible for all charges. or we owned the car/vehicle one or the other.If you end up owning an abandoned RV that can be the gift that keeps on giving (grief to you, the new owner, that is).
westernrvparkowner 11/17/19 04:53pm General RVing Issues
RE: The future cost of RV stay

western is correct. Although the massive upgrade can probably be spread over 20+ years and may not start for 10. Just as we have 30amp and 50amp sites now there will be a few added with a second 50 amp EV charging connection. Virtually zero are needed today.Not that easy to spread an upgrade over multiple years. Beyond the major problem of having construction going on continually, where do you start and stop? Do the best sites get the charging upgrade and need to be kept empty in case an EV rig comes around. Or do you relegate the EVs to less desirable locations so the best sites are available for the more common internal combustion rigs? Will you price the EV sites much higher due to the higher electrical costs and construction costs or will you pass the costs on to everyone including those who don't use either the sites or the extra electricity keeping the price increases more modest? What about groups traveling together when one has an EV rig? Do you break up the group or use all the EV sites for one EV? Plus construction of a new area will often require crossing a completed area increasing costs. Lots of issues to consider.
westernrvparkowner 11/17/19 02:43pm Tow Vehicles
RE: The future cost of RV stay

I really don't understand the upgrades that would be needed anywhere to the electrical supply at an RV park. Most all electrical vehicles can be charged using 120v, it just takes a longer time. but if you're RVing than you would have to stay at least a few nights plugged in.It isn't outlets available, it is loads. Go add up the breakers in you home's breaker box. The total is way more than the rating of the panel. Heck, just running two everyday space heaters off of a duplex outlet will trip the breaker serving that outlet. EV chargers draw a substantial amount of power for long periods of time. This thread isn't about one EV in a 100 site park, it is about what will happen if a large percentage of RVs have an electrical vehicle as either their tow vehicle or their dingy. And on top of that, maybe some electric powered class A rigs as well. It really doesn't matter if you overnight or stay several weeks since you are likely to be using the vehicles regardless. No RV park has an electrical system engineered to add those loads to the existing demands of the RVs. It will require a massive upgrade as I outlined previously.
westernrvparkowner 11/17/19 10:58am Tow Vehicles
RE: The future cost of RV stay

To have charging ability at each site would require an entire rewiring of the park. If the recharging included the RV itself, the increase in electrical loads would be monumental. Currently, a 200 amp service will support seven fifty amp RV pedestals. Add in charging abilities for a tow vehicle, a dingy, likely some ATVs, and the electric motorhomes now that 200 amp service will only support one or possibly two sites. It will be necessary to replace every pedestal, rewire every single site, repair all the roads and landscaping damaged by that rewiring, and pay the power company for all those new service connections (Assuming they can supply the extra power which is unlikely at best). My best guess is somewhere around $5000.00 per site. Then you have the added electricity usage to spread over the sites since individual metering on a daily basis is not feaasible. That could easily run ten bucks a day. Recoup the capital investment over seven years and site fees are rising $20+ a day. And that assumes a park owner is willing and able to make that five thousand dollar a site investment only to stay in business and not see a financial return. If it ever reaches that decision point I will probably see it as the time to bail out and sell the properties, likely for conversion to another use.
westernrvparkowner 11/17/19 09:09am Tow Vehicles
RE: campground to avoid

Foul mouth or not. I don't go to campgrounds to make friends with the management. Pay your fee, don't buy anything, spend the night then head out. We had a similar experience a few years ago where management was just awful. We completed our stay there (a weekend), but the initial "welcome" tainted the entire stay there. It loomed over our heads. The initial "welcome" at check-in does set the entire tone for the entire experience. It's not easy to just "get over it" or "forget it" or "just move on in the morning." For what it's worth, our "bad welcome experience" occurred at a campground not very far from where we live. We'd never been there before, but decided to try it. If the experience would have been positive, we'd probably visit it more. It is a nice campground, but we'll never go back. So yes, the initial "Welcome" at check-in IS very important and how one is treated when first arriving will make a lasting impression forever. Remember, you can NEVER undo a first time impression. Be kind to each other. Life is just too short to live it in misery.First impressions cut both ways. How a customer acts at check in is our first impression also. People wouldn't believe the things we have encountered over the years. There have been some instances where politeness and a smile would be an unacceptable response.
westernrvparkowner 11/17/19 08:28am General RVing Issues
RE: Seafood from mexico

I read these Mexico threads occasionally and have a question. Is there anything were the locals won't try and cheat you? The cheat you on scales, they cheat you at the fuel stations, the police want bribes and on and on. Is it paranoia or just the way of doing business south of the US border?
westernrvparkowner 11/15/19 03:04pm RVing in Mexico and South America
RE: Signing a power of attorney for bank when selling your RV

Then that transaction was not actually an auto loan where there was to be a lien placed on the auto. It was a personal loan of some type where you used the funds to purchase a vehicle. These transactions happen all the time when the bank doesn't want or doesn't need to perfect a lien. Almost assuredly it was a bank where you have a long standing and good relationship where the security of a lien on the title was unnecessary. It was. I had a preapproved loan. I went to the dealership and they wrote up the documentation. I took that to the bank. They then gave me the cash and I went back to the dealership to finalize the transaction. The bank had the documentation for the lien on the title before giving me the money. Had I reneged and not paid the money to the dealer, then the bank would have gone after me for the money.Must have been a cheap vehicle or the bank did no one any favors. They put you out on the street with a large amount of cash. They put the dealership in the position of having to process a large amount of cash (and take on the risk of counterfeit bills, as well as the physical risk of having large amounts of cash on premises) and requiring them to file a form 8300 (cash transaction of $10,000 or more) with the IRS. That wouldn't be a benefit to you or to them. Many businesses will not accept large cash transactions exactly because of those two issues.
westernrvparkowner 11/13/19 07:12pm General RVing Issues
RE: Signing a power of attorney for bank when selling your RV

The check is going to be made payable to the seller. It is sent to the buyer so they can exchange it for the RV. When a bank makes a loan for a vehicle they never, ever just give cash or a check payable to the borrower and hope they then complete the transaction. With enough imagination, it is possible to concoct a wacky scenario were any transaction could be a fraud. Even "meet me at my bank and I will give you cash" could just be a trick to steal your RV when the buyer's accomplice is waiting outside to bop you over the head and steal back the money. In this case, it sure sounds like the OP has investigated it enough to know the transaction is legit and I think they would be walking away from a sale should they resist following the steps the bank is providing. Many years ago, I was selling a trailer, (Not RV) and a friend was selling another. The buyer met us at a local bank where both sellers had accounts. Buyer had a cashiers check drawn on his bank couple hundred miles away, made out to himself. Banker made some calls to bank, credited my and friend's account, we signed titles, banker notarized, went to lot, hooked trailers to his trucks, had a round of beer. All was good for about 3 weeks, until the banks figured out the buyer had copied the check. My friend went to the Sheriff in buyers home county to make a report, was told it was a civil matter, hire a lawyer and sue. (Might of been a racial issue, I might of had better results) Nearly bankrupted my friend. Was enough outlaw in me to get my trailer back, but bouncing checks still cut me deep. WRVPO, Not all financing results in a bank written check made out to the seller. My last car loan, they deposited the funds into my account and I took it out in cash to pay the seller. .Then that transaction was not actually an auto loan where there was to be a lien placed on the auto. It was a personal loan of some type where you used the funds to purchase a vehicle. These transactions happen all the time when the bank doesn't want or doesn't need to perfect a lien. Almost assuredly it was a bank where you have a long standing and good relationship where the security of a lien on the title was unnecessary.
westernrvparkowner 11/13/19 12:37pm General RVing Issues
RE: Signing a power of attorney for bank when selling your RV

Many (Most) car dealers have you sign a POA when you trade in your old car. It is in all the other stack of papers. If the bank is going to give you the check within a few minutes of signing the POA, no problem. But if it is a few days????????? yes, that's standard procedure when trading to a dealer AT CLOSING. But, like I've said the lender wants the POA executed before issuing and sending the check out. I figure is will be at least a several days before I will see a check... They are sendng the check to the buyer and in turn he will give it to me at wich time im required to give him the titleSo what happens if the buyer all of the sudden decides he wants to buy something else with the check and sticks this financing company? They have POA over your title - you loose. I googled this company - they don't lend any less than 15K so that's a big sum to be burning a hole in your pocket. and why don't THEY want possession of the title? Instead they are letting the seller posses the title? I'd tell the guy to either deal with a bank that you can actually go to -or go somewhere else. Sure, you want to sell it - but don't get swindled.The check is going to be made payable to the seller. It is sent to the buyer so they can exchange it for the RV. When a bank makes a loan for a vehicle they never, ever just give cash or a check payable to the borrower and hope they then complete the transaction. With enough imagination, it is possible to concoct a wacky scenario were any transaction could be a fraud. Even "meet me at my bank and I will give you cash" could just be a trick to steal your RV when the buyer's accomplice is waiting outside to bop you over the head and steal back the money. In this case, it sure sounds like the OP has investigated it enough to know the transaction is legit and I think they would be walking away from a sale should they resist following the steps the bank is providing.
westernrvparkowner 11/12/19 02:53pm General RVing Issues
RE: Horrible Good Sams/ Bank of the West Financing

You did but no mention of what or how it would be delivered. The rate was down for a couple weeks and instead of honoring it as a good customer service company would have done you ignored or delayed a response until the rate went back up. We are just going to have to agree to disagree.And that "goodwill" gesture was a waste of time and money. Most people realize the rate you get when you consummate a deal is the rate you get to live with. You signed the documents and took the money, most likely without a gun to your head. Own your actions.
westernrvparkowner 11/12/19 11:59am Good Sam Club
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