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RE: NorCal Mini Truck Camper Rally - April 2023
Rob, know that we had a most enjoyable time while there, the weather and campsite couldn’t have been better and the group was superb - like one big family! …You Sir are an awesome fella, and definitely ‘the multi-talented’ Renaissance Man !!… I thoroughly enjoyed our many multi-varied chats (lol !), and thanks for putting up with me :)
Our Best to You Sir,
Phil & Deb
Thanks Phil! I had a great time and really happy to host. Looking forward to next year! I am working on sharing pictures and drone footage and will post them here in a couple of days when I get a chance to process it all.
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adamis
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04/26/23 01:42pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: NorCal Mini Truck Camper Rally - April 2023
Here with Mike and Kelly, looking forward to the rest of you getting here. If you need anything, text or call me at 408-836-3542.
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adamis
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04/21/23 02:09pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: NorCal Mini Truck Camper Rally - April 2023
Well folks, camper is all packed up and ready to roll! I will be in Redding Thursday evening but likely will not be out to the property until mid Friday morning. For anyone arriving early, my first post has instructions including the gate combo.
Looking forward to seeing you all soon!
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adamis
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04/19/23 06:56pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: NorCal Mini Truck Camper Rally - April 2023
I don’t have a lawn, and a bare minimum of un-landscaped area, so no such wacker in my garage…
3 tons
The joys of desert living!
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adamis
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04/16/23 08:58pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: NorCal Mini Truck Camper Rally - April 2023
Robert, we would like to take advantage of your offer of an early check-in. We have a friend within walking distance of your property and finalizing the timing of things for Wednesday or Thursday.
Can I bring up a string weed Wacker and do any site prep for you knowing how we were arranged last year?
Hi Mike, absolutely! I will be up in Redding on Thursday myself but likely won't be at the property until Friday mid morning. Gate code for the lock is 1065 so you can get in. If you have any trouble, shoot me a text, I am going to be only ten minutes away.
Weed wacker might be helpful but I honestly don't know what the current state is. Looking forward to seeing you guys!
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adamis
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04/16/23 08:57pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: NorCal Mini Truck Camper Rally - April 2023
OP just wondering how many campers do you estimate will be in attendance?
We'll probably be rolling in sometime Fri afternoon as were staying the night about 300 miles south of the rally just off the 5.
Looking forward to meeting everyone.
Hard to say, last year we had about 5 rigs I think. This year between 5 and 10 is my guess. I think most everyone from last year is in and I'm pretty sure there are a couple of new folks that posted in here making plans.
There should be plenty of room for up to about 20 campers and even then, we can probably squeeze more if we had to.
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adamis
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04/12/23 05:50pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: NorCal Mini Truck Camper Rally - April 2023
Hi all, hard to believe we are getting to be so close to the rally. Excited to see you all again soon! Creek has been flowing well. This is a pic a neighbor shared, she took it at a bit of a weird angle but still quite a nice sight!
https://i.imgur.com/076oqI7l.jpg
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adamis
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04/09/23 05:38pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: NorCal Mini Truck Camper Rally - April 2023
Sorry to hear you guys can't make it but hopefully you all can make the next one.
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adamis
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04/03/23 07:21am |
Truck Campers
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RE: NorCal Mini Truck Camper Rally - April 2023
Hi all, just a quick update, everything is still on track. Looking forward to seeing you all there!
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adamis
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03/12/23 05:40pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Finally Common Sense in California (No Shows at Campgrounds)
What we are discovering is that many Campgrounds from various states use a reservation website either their own or other, to offload the needs for the CG admin. No answering phones etc.
In turn the states and local county campgrounds have to reserve XX number of sites for that website reservation website.... So even if there are no one reserving from those websites reserved sites they will remain empty!
You can not just arrive at them and get an empty site.. SUCKS!
Jim
I haven't decided if registrations hurts or helps. There are times when it is nice to know you have a spot (or at least supposed to have) you can count on. But thirty years ago it didn't seem like campgrounds filled up anyway.
The downfall is spontaneity is no longer a thing you can just do anymore and access to open areas is getting closed more and more. On our summer road trip a couple of years ago, there was a fantastic county park near Carnation Washington that I had stayed in previously by myself. I hyped it up to the travel worn family and when we arrived, I was estatic that there were several sites available. I pulled in to one and went to the registration kiosk to reserve the site, only to find out that the kiosk had been removed. Yup, you had to reserve online and get this, you had to reserve at least 7 days in advance. Even though the spot we had was open, we were literally forced out of it and ended up at the KOA in Tacoma.
It seems that as the Forest Service has aged, it no longer is aggressively building new campgrounds but rather expanding existing campgrounds and packing more people into tighter spaces. The quality of the camping experience in these mega campgrounds has gone down as more people seem to think that they are doing a community service by sharing their music with everyone else and the fire pits are less than 20 feet away.
My ideal system would be a mix I think. Maybe 2/3rds of the sites would be reserved via online but the other third would remain open for drive up visits. I would also want to see a LOT more campgrounds opened up with clear effort to offer some space between sites. I like being neighborly with my fellow campers but I don't want to be 10 feet away from them.
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adamis
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02/19/23 01:39pm |
Truck Campers
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Finally Common Sense in California (No Shows at Campgrounds)
We've all experience rhe phenomena of trying to get reservations at an extremely busy campground. Trying multiple different dates and lengths in the reservation system only to be told the campground is full by the system. You keep checking back constantly and manage to find a site that opens up at the last minute and you rush to grab it and feel quite fortunate. When you roll into the campground you check in and feel quite good that your persistence paid off to get that one lucky spot. Then, you drive around the campground headed to your spot and notice several empty sites on the way. No worries you think, those people just haven't arrived yet, they will fill up. You keep an eye on those sites as you enjoy your trip and the day you pack up you note that many of those sites stayed open even though there where reservation tags on them. Yup... No shows...
Now, most of us truck camper folks like going off grid anyway to avoid the crowds. Even with our preference to avoid the crowds, there are still times when we need to use regular campgrounds from time to time. I've had several times where plans changed and I am trying find a campground with space, only to be told there is no space available. Knowing full well that a good percentage of people are going to be no shows but I am being turned away anyway.
Someone in the California legislature has noticed this as well and proposed a bill to penalize these no show folks. This is great news for the system! There is a commitment problem within society where people just don't keep their commitments any longer. This won't solve that problem but it will ar least penalize some of them who take advantage of a lenient system at the expense of others.
https://www.rvtravel.com/finally-penalizing-shows-california-1092b/
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adamis
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02/19/23 09:09am |
Truck Campers
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RE: NorCal Mini Truck Camper Rally - April 2023
I thought we had already replied to your rally invitation but I don’t see our entry so Mary and I would definitely like to join you again! If you have anymore wire fence repair projects let us know and we can bring appropriate tools and even show up a day early if needed!
Hi Greg, it will be great to have you guys again! I don't think we have any fencing projects in line this time though but thank you once again for all your help last time!
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adamis
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01/31/23 08:44am |
Truck Campers
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RE: Frame Stiffing to reduce Porpoising?
To paraphrase, "If you find somebody willing to weld on your frame... you don't want them."
Why not? Thousands of commercial truck frames are welded on a daily basis. They cut 'em behind the cab and splice in a piece to add length. They install frame liners to add strength.
Older pickup trucks are routinely shortened to convert them into the more desirable "short box" versions.
Stock frames are boxed in all the time for offroad applications.
Thanks for the comment. This was along the lines of what I was thinking when I asked the question. I know it isn't common and you don't want just any shop doing it but clearly there are places that do it for the reasons you mentioned.
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adamis
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01/30/23 03:27pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Frame Stiffing to reduce Porpoising?
I don't know how this is turning into an argument about weight but since that seems to be the focal point of this thread...
The first weight I provided of between 4500lbs to 5000lbs which was a guesstimate accounting for camper dry weight, water, food and gear. I was basing that estimate on what I believed the camper dry weight to be 4000lbs and everything else depending on how I loaded it another 500lbs to 1000lbs. It turns out, the actual camper weight to be 1240.06 kilograms or 2733.8lbs when it went out the factory door.
https://i.imgur.com/fd8P4fbl.jpg
Now, that doesn't include the Onan 2500 genset added later which weighs 113lbs or the AC unit also later added which is ~130lbs give or take a few so dry weight of my camper is 2976lbs. I guess you can add in the LiFePo4 battery and round it up to an even 3000lbs.
As far as the truck is concerned, BigToe, you clearly put a lot of effort into your analysis. No, my truck is not a California truck, it actually came from Texas. It passes smog here in California and that is all I care about. As far as your breakdown of weight analysis, you are quite knowledgeable or have a lot of time, maybe both but in spite of your best efforts, you were off by quite a bit. I can't believe I am actually doing this as I had to dig it out but for the sake of putting this argument to bed...
https://i.imgur.com/6kESxgjl.jpg
According to the scales, my truck weight is 7600lbs. By the GVWR rating of 11200lbs on the tag of the door, that leaves me with 3600lbs of capacity, not the 2961 you estimated. The axle rating on the truck is 8250lbs for the rear. By the CAT weight scales, I only have 3380lbs on the rear. That leaves me with 4870 lbs of rear axle weight capacity.
So now that we have the truck weight and the camper weight, we now know that dry, I am 600lbs below the GVWR of the truck. Sure, add in propane, water, food, pots, pans and all the other stuff and I'm sure I'm running over that 3600lbs but it isn't by a whole lot, certainly not overweight by the 1000lb to 2000lb BigToe, GritDog and valhalla360 seem to think. With the axle capacity of 4870lbs, I am confident I am well below that by several hundred pounds or more.
Excellent breakdown of the subject but I'm betting the OP just keeps insisting that it's OK because he wants confirmation, not an actual answer because it's most likely not the answer he will ike.
It might be an excellent breakdown but it was wrong. As far "insisting that it's OK because he wants confirmation" I asked for no such thing, I only asked if it had been done. I again point out that the question I started this thread was:
... So, my next thought was to look at having my frame reinforced. I know there are all sorts of complications when going this route though. Ford does fully boxed frames for a reason because it gives so much more rigidity. I no there is at least one person that has done this on their 7.3 from a posting on the Ford forums. This is obviously a huge expense and extreme measure.
Has anyone else gone through this or found a way to handle excessive porpoising on older C channel frame trucks?
There have been several people who didn't focus on the weight and answered my question about adding rigidity to the frame based on their own experiences and knowledge and for that I am thankful. Clearly this isn't something commonly done and there is limited experience. THAT is the answer to the question I asked and for all of you who did focus on the heart of my question. Thank you.
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adamis
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01/30/23 12:53am |
Truck Campers
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RE: Frame Stiffing to reduce Porpoising?
good analysis of the Facebook guy. Also the thread is great as usual. Something I have integrated in my local travels that sort of go along with what we are talking about. I tow a small 4x8 trailer now almost everywhere I go. My 1181 is so ass heavy it's not a pleasant drive anymore. I put my two small generators, Two spare tires, tool box, spare parts and anything that had weight in the camper to the trailer. On top of everything else I've done it has improved the ride. One more thing, You guys go back and forth about many things and you get very frustrated with each other from time to time. For a guy like me that wants to hear all sides it's very helpful. I don't post much but I read everything every day.
Thanks for the positive feedback. Though things sometime get heated here, for the most part the discussions are always positive and insightful. There are a lot of seasoned and very smart people on these forums and getting to hear their opinions and experience is what makes this forum so valuable.
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adamis
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01/26/23 05:00pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Frame Stiffing to reduce Porpoising?
I'm betting facebook guy thought nothing of his 2" of flex too...
I think Facebook guy's frame was flexing a lot more than 2". From what I have read, he was overloaded at least 1500lbs, maybe closer to 2000lbs and he had a huge moment arm created by the bikes hanging off the back like they where. EBikes weigh close to 100lbs, he had two of them so he's got 200lbs that was nearly 8 feet from the center of his rear axle (rough guesstimate). That is 1600lbs of moment arm pulling on the frame. That coupled with rough roads and lots of miles seems to be what did him in. Other's have studied and argued his situation way more than I but from the little I have seen, it doesn't surprise me what happened to him.
The center of gravity of our campers is generally very close to right over the top of the rear axles or just a bit in front. This means the center of the frame isn't supporting our four to six thousand pound campers. Most of that weight is transmitted directly into the rear wheels. However, the frame is having to "balance" or keep in place a heavy engine up front over the front wheels and the heavy camper on the rear wheels. The frame flex we observe is more due to the frame keeping these two heavy pieces together going down the road. Having the camper weight slightly forward of the rear axles puts the center of mass between the front and rear wheels such that the frame is dealing with the frame flex occurring consistently between the front and rear wheels of the truck. This is an ideal situation and what the engineers design for.
If you add a huge moment arm off the back with a heavy trailer along with a hitch extension you are now adding a rearward twisting motion to the frame. So now you have competing forces that the frame is dealing with, almost like a teeter-saw. I would venture that the amount of frame flex Facebook guy's truck endured was significantly more than is common for a properly balanced truck.
Finally, rigidity isn't everything. I know I started this post asking if frame stiffening was something others had done. However when you make something rigid, you lose the ability to flex without causing permanent deformation. As others have said, this deformation causes fatigue over time and leads to frame failure. The engineers that designed the truck obviously know this but what we might be seeing is that the increased rigidity of the frames is causing overloaded trucks to deform and fatigue the frame material versus just flexing like the older and more flexible truck frames of the past. As campers continue to get heavier and truck frames continue to get stiffer, we may see a lot more Facebook Guy's in the future.
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adamis
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01/26/23 09:28am |
Truck Campers
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RE: Frame Stiffing to reduce Porpoising?
But a very important point that maybe scooby just brought up is the amount of movement in the overhead portion that we ALL see from time to time with big TCs is not necessarily indicative of excessive frame flex, nor is porpoising. Unless it’s literally a rocking horse most or all of the time. Which is more likely suspension and shocks. Given the camper weight and configuration changing is not an option.
Perhaps my use of the word porpoising was just the wrong terminology and that set you off. What you are describing is what I am observing. The camper overhead rocking slightly up and down on rough roads. When that happens, I can look in the side view mirror and what I observe is these lines flexing ever so slightly.
https://i.imgur.com/F1RGtDCl.jpg
Now, I don't have a way to measure it, I guesstimated 1 to 2" but probably more likely in the less than 1" range now that I think about it again. So, everyone else, while you are driving down the road and come across a bumpy section and see the overhead portion moving up and down, take a look in your side view mirror down this sight line and I am betting you will observe some movement as well.
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adamis
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01/24/23 05:40pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Frame Stiffing to reduce Porpoising?
I had the same rig for a little while and here's what I found out.
The bed opening width is minimal. The curved part at the bottom necessitated that I use two pieces of plywood to raise it above the curvature.
Make sure your bed is flat. On my new GMC truck the bed is crowned front to back, which necessitated different pieces of plywood of varying thickness.
Re the center of gravity. I had race car scales so I put my camper on them. If you look at some of my old posts you can find out what I found out. There guesstimate is best case, what I found out was different. Though the cog was behind the wheels a bit, I didn't find it to effect the driving.
Also on my F250 I had the biggest spring pack installed and largest sway bar. I still didn't like the way it drove. The cog is just so high.
I removed and reinstalled my jacks on the camper. When they installed them the holes in the brackets were too small for the fasteners used there is no way they would pull up tight against the camper. So I enlarged the holes in the brackets and reinstalled.
Also if you have a gooseneck ball in the bed, you can install the plywood on the bed with a hole that matches this and install a stub into and flush with the plywood to hold it in place, or two pieces if that is what you do.
Good luck.
Thanks Marcela, I like your idea on using the goosneck ball mount to help hold things in place. That is a great idea and something I will definitely look into for a future project.
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adamis
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01/24/23 10:13am |
Truck Campers
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RE: Frame Stiffing to reduce Porpoising?
That contrasts with the 1999 with Max Payload for the Crew Cab Dually Long Bed 2x4 appears to be 5355lbs and the 4x4 is 4910lbs.
https://www.xr793.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/1999-Ford-Super-Duty.pdf
So, with basically the same frame, how did they manage to get another 1500+ pounds of payload capacity out of it?
You should go by the Ford bodybuilders manual that I referenced, not by that brochure. The bodybuilders manual gives the specific configurations, in California - less, diesel engine - less. Because the empty truck weighs more. The bodybuilders manual does not give the diesel 4x2 DRW crewcab, but does give the 6.8L, and the diesels are less by about 500 lbs in all models. You could just weigh the empty truck, the GVWR is 11,200 for all models of DRW pickups in those years.
The frame configuration and layout is nearly identical between 1999 and 2015, but the material may be thicker. That is also listed somewhere in the bodybuilders manuals, haven't bothered to look. You probably can't go from 11,200 to 14,000 without doing something.
Thanks HMS Beagle. I did some research on the frame differences and what I found was Ford did increase the thickness. From this discussion here:
https://www.powerstroke.org/threads/frame-differences.136669/
The frame differences are:
99-04 Crew Cab F-250-350 Pickup 156.2" WB, (6.87 x 2.36 x .240), 6.0
05-10 Crew Cab F-250-350 Pickup 156.2" WB, (6.87 x 2.36 x .264), 6.7
That would explain the payload capacity increase.
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adamis
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01/24/23 10:12am |
Truck Campers
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RE: Frame Stiffing to reduce Porpoising?
Still not a chance in heck that that truck has anywhere near a 5klb payload rating. Irrelevant of the reduced TC weight ratings that the mfg provides.
What’s the door sticker say? I’d be very surprised if it didn’t say 11,200lbs gvwr.
I understand you want to make this work but ignoring the obvious like actual gvwr and questions/suggestions about your suspension (You’ve only said you replaced the shocks. Which is only a small part of the equation) shows that you’re trying too hard to make this work by ignoring the factors you choose to not consider.
So until you post a pic of the gvwr proving that your truck is somehow special compared to the other 100,000s that went down the line those few years, you’re just kidding yourself.
And I’ll eat my words as well.
The other difficulty is sure some of these major mods are possible, however you’ll be hard pressed to find a shop that will take on the liability of any major structural conversions. And those that do will charge about as much as buying your whole truck again. Maybe more.
The only recent comparison for frame mods is Mega cab long bed conversions. And years ago those were about $5k byob (bring your own bed). What you’re proposing is of similar risk and complexity minus the frame stretch.
While my responses and others seem harsh, or condescending it’s your truck and you asked the question. My intention is never to mislead which is consistent here as well.
Good luck.
Gritdog your post is exactly what you said it was, harsh and condescending. I'm not offended by it but I question why you feel it is necessary to the point of stating it yourself.
Moving along, you aren't answering my original question. The only question mark in my first post is for this sentence:
"Has anyone else gone through this or found a way to handle excessive porpoising on older C channel frame trucks?"
I assume your point is, your camper is too heavy for the truck. If you want to go by stickers on the door, that is fine, you probably are correct depending on how much gear is loaded. But I didn't ask about the sticker on the door nor was I asking if the camper weighed too much. I asked if anyone has ever gone through the effort to stiffen the frame.
From the answers so far, it appears the answer is no. I appreciate everyone's response as it tells me it is uncharted territory and if I do proceed, I should proceed with definite caution.
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adamis
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01/23/23 03:44pm |
Truck Campers
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