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RE: Why Tesla's are bad at towing!

I will continue to get what suits me just like I always have. As a car/truck enthusiast, I will also continue to discuss things I see happening in the automotive industry whether it is a ICE or BEV regardless if I agree/disagree or like/dislike it.
ShinerBock 12/06/19 12:51pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Why Tesla's are bad at towing!

Good for who? Some are doing it right now. Lead, follow or just get out of the way..... Some are towing over 100 miles and back while reaching their destination in the same time as they would an ICE vehicle? You guys talk about the inconveniences of refilling a gas vehicle yet don't seem to have an issue with recharging a BEV multiple times a trip while towing adding hours to your journey. As it stands right now, I can tow an RV 150 miles the coast, do a little driving in town and tow it back without even thinking about the "inconveniences" of filling up. Can you say the same with a BEV or even this new Cybertruck?
ShinerBock 12/06/19 12:28pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Why Tesla's are bad at towing!

So what's everyone else's problem again?:hYes that is the part that grinds on me. Everyone has an example why Tesla or an EV in general cannot work for them. SO DON"T BUY IT Nothing works for everybody in every possible situation. Be happy for those that can make it work. Why is that so hard? Because this is a forum where we can discuss such things. If you do not like it then take your own advice and leave the thread. There are many threads on this forum that I don't even go into because the topic either does not interest me or I know it will be a circle jerk I don't want to be involved in. People have the right to voice their opinions about topics here regardless if others get triggered by it or not. I know ta'll Tesla guys can't stand for people talking bad about your favorite brand, but in reality Tesla is not the only one. People talk **** about all of the brands even though they have no intention of buying one so suck it up buttercup. As far as the topic goes.... As it stands today, Tesla's and all other EV's are not good tow vehicles because they do not have enough energy density to tow much over 100 miles(if even that) based on the kilowatt hours of storage of their batteries.
ShinerBock 12/06/19 11:53am Tow Vehicles
RE: Why Tesla's are bad at towing!

Better get my boots on, it is getting deep in here.
ShinerBock 12/06/19 11:19am Tow Vehicles
RE: Goodbye DPF and soot?

Actually it is not pure ignorance when speaking in terms of PM and NOx. What I referred to as "pure ignorance" was your implication more people should move into rural area, and instead of driving 50 miles a week to get back and forth to work now drive 50 miles one way, and think that the increase in driving will not increase emissions. Well it is because of those people that I have to pay more for fuel due to lower efficiency, pay more for my truck due to the emissions equipment, decreased reliability, and pay more for repairs/maintenance in the long run due to NOx emissions that only effect the health of people in highly populated areas. Why should I have to pay for their wants?
ShinerBock 12/05/19 11:53am Tow Vehicles
RE: Why Tesla's are bad at towing!

How many folks tow at 75 miles per hour? 55 would make more sense. Me. (Depends what I'm towing and where) Same here. Although I thought we already had this convo before. To summarize and generally speaking.... If you are in your 90s, towing over 25 mph is too fast. If you are in your 80s, towing over 35 mph is too fast. If you are in your 70s, towing over 45 mph is too fast. If you are in your 60s, towing over 55 mph is too fast. If you are in your 50s, towing over 65 mph is too fast. If you are under 50,then you more than likely tow between 65 and 75 mph unless your are noob which in that case refer to the over 60 years old crowd.
ShinerBock 12/05/19 11:45am Tow Vehicles
RE: Why Tesla's are bad at towing!

I think it makes sense to have the power for electric vehicles embedded in the roadways to keep the batteries charged as the vehicles drive along the road... kind of like trolley busses. LOL how many millions of miles of roadway are there in the US? Aha! There are about 4,071,000 miles of road, changing all the time of course. And figuring a conservative $100,000 a mile to electrify that would be $4,000,000,000, that 4 Trillion bucks plus operating and maintenance costs. And that does not include all the dirt an gravel roads that we like so much out west. Not to mention the fact that wireless charging is very inefficient and wastes a lot of energy. There is also the factor of voltage drop over long distances.
ShinerBock 12/05/19 09:31am Tow Vehicles
RE: Why Tesla's are bad at towing!

Funny part is, he is an actual Tesla owner and has made many pro-Tesla videos in the past. I guess he and the guys at TFL are right, the Tesla fanboys are fanatical and will go after you if you say anything that they perceive as a negative about Tesla regardless if it is true or not. Almost like a cult.
ShinerBock 12/05/19 08:38am Tow Vehicles
RE: Why Tesla's are bad at towing!

Only limit is range and recharging, Yes? EV should be very good when actually towing. Gobs of torque, always in just the right gear. Not sure why you called out Tesla as they are as good as it gets right now for towing with a EV. Did you really mean LEAF, Bolt, Kona or something else? Because he uses them as an example in the video since they currently have the longest range and are promoting that their vehicles can tow. Gobs of torque and always in the right gear are useless if they can't get you to your destination.
ShinerBock 12/05/19 08:29am Tow Vehicles
RE: Why Tesla's are bad at towing!

Two words......energy density. Video - Why Teslas Are Bad At Towing (Today) Maybe someday, but not today. Now let the excuses commence...... I am still not convinced that electric is not just the rebound date of eco vehicle development. Fact is, it will take many decades to completely transform how we travel. There are limitations on electric capacity and battery technology that are very similar to fossil fuels. There very well may be a new technology developed within the life cycle of the electric vehicle that will be better and more sustainable. I agree!
ShinerBock 12/05/19 08:26am Tow Vehicles
RE: Goodbye DPF and soot?

"CO and CO2 on the other hand(which gassers mainly emit) do stay in the air regardless of where you are at." Shiner, you generally put a lot of thought and intelligence in your posts. Surely you are not claiming that the carbon in diesel fuel is somehow converted into NOx instead of CO and CO2. And, since diesel has a higher percentage of carbon in it that gasoline a pound of diesel will make more carbon byproducts than a pound of gasoline. Production of NOx is an endothermic process which means that it absorbs energy and increases demand for carbon based fuel. Once it is discharged it starts breaking down and creates nitric acid which slowly dissolves most everything. "Trust me, the EPA is not perfect, but some seem to take what they say as the word of God without question or even knowing what the regulation is." I wholeheartedly agree with this. In fact, they probably did more harm than good with the regulations in the 1970's that made many cars more than double their fuel requirements and thus CO2 emissions. No, I am not claiming that the carbon in diesel is converted to NOx. That is ludicrous. What I am saying is that diesel emit less CO and CO2 than gassers due to their efficiency. Diesel fuel does have more carbon than a gallon of gas, but due to how efficient a diesel is at utilizing that gallon it emits less carbon per mile. A prime example of this is the BMW 328d and 328i. Both are exaclty the same except the 328d has a 2.0L diesel engine and the 328i has 2.0L gas engine. The 328d is EPA rated at 31/36/43 mpg combined and has a CO2 output of 68.75 g/m while the 328i is rated at 23/27/34 mpg and has a CO2 output of 77.5 g/m. Keep in mind that our EPA test cycles are geared toward achieving the best results for a gas engine so the the 328d is likely to achieve better fuel economy than the EPA numbers which in turn would lower CO2 output in the real world for the diesel while increasing it for the gasser. In fact, I can attest that it does since I own one and generally achieve 43 mpg combined when it was stock where the EPA rates it at 36 combined. I am also not saying that the EPA has not done any good or had good intentions especially when it was first created by Republican President Richard Nixon. However, with most government agencies that were started with good intentions, they eventually turn partisan and used by an elected official to implement their agenda. As I said before, I am all for the EPA or any other agency making thought out and calculated decisions using objective data, but I am against them making decisions purely based on a political agenda without looking at the effects of said decisions as a whole. Many times they just make a decisions and do not calculate the total impact of that decision. One prime example was the CAFE footprint regulation that killed fuel efficient compact truck such as the Ranger and S10. Another is what I previously stated where they lowered the NOx from 1.2 g/hp-hr to .2 g/hp-hr(considerably lower than EU), and by doing so probably created more pollution by what it took for the market to get it there. The EPA does not look in retrospect on whether their decisions actually created more pollution because of how the market reacted o that decisions. They basically tell the manufacturers that they have to meet a certain number in five years and do not look at the added pollution that it took to get there years later. All they care about is meeting that number. They don't look at the decreases fuel efficiency, adds more pollution from all the plants making DEF and plastic jugs, added garbage pollution from the plastic jugs, added pollution from transporting DEF and so on. As long as the manufacturers attain that 1 g/hp-hr, that is all that matters to them.
ShinerBock 12/05/19 08:25am Tow Vehicles
Why Tesla's are bad at towing!

Two words......energy density. Video - Why Teslas Are Bad At Towing (Today) Maybe someday, but not today. Now let the excuses commence......
ShinerBock 12/05/19 06:33am Tow Vehicles
RE: Goodbye DPF and soot?

First you have not addressed the point without regulation the research into making the engines run cleaner. Never said it hasn't, and I am not against regulation that are well thought out and not some number reached for political browny points. Most of the time it happens is in the suburbs. A guy in a new, shinny, lifted pickup can leave the light, blowing enough black smoke that pedestrians can disappear. But the maid on her way to clean the house of the rectum that just choked the kids walking to school can get a ticket because 20 year old Toyota is smoking as she slows for the light. Well that guy deserves a ticket just like the guy in the gas truck that clearly was blowing oil though his piston rings that I had to smell for miles down a back country road the other day. Just to make it clear, I am against rolling coal just as much as you. However, you can still modify your truck and not roll coal. With today's diesels, you have actually program the truck to roll coal because they will not with a clean tune even with all the emissions system off. This is a problem. But I think a good part of the problem is unlike most of the developed world, somebody running for office in the government can say he will listen to god and money, not scientist. (Most people I know, if they mention the voices in their head we beg them to get back on meds. But I guess if they could get on the news they could get elected) As a husband of a senior level III scientist, I can tell you that even they are capable of giving subjective bias data that fits their predetermined mindset. I implore you to go back and look how and when the recent 2007+ diesel regulations were created and what the market did to reach these numbers. Look at everything from the decreased efficiency of every engine, the mining of added catalyst materials, the creation and emissions from soot burning DPF cleaning machines, the plants that make DEF fluid, the plants that make the DEF jugs, the added pollution from the DEF jugs, the emissions from the truck that deliver DEF, and so on. Then ask yourself if all this was worth the very minuscule amount PM and NOx limit change when the EPA told the manufacturers a number to reach and did not recalculate the impact on what they did to reach it. Then look into why our emissions regulations are biased toward gas engines even though they spew more greenhouse gases than diesels. Not only that, but also look into why our fuel economy tests are also geared toward attaining the highest number possible for gassers which is why gassers generally do worse than the EPA numbers in the real world and diesels do better. You can also look into other EPA CAFE regulations and how they actually had a reverse effect in many cases by making cars bigger while killing off smaller more efficient vehicles and is one of the reasons why automakers will stop making cars. Trust me, the EPA is not perfect, but some seem to take what they say as the word of God without question or even knowing what the regulation is. I bet nobody here even knows what the current CO, CO2, PM, or NOx limit is without looking it up or knowing their impact between each regulation, but by God they will defend it to their dying breath because it came from the EPA. Let me see. A long time ago it was discovered for society to develop past substance farming cities are needed to concentrate market and labor. I think most who live in city do so because that is where the jobs are. It is pure ignorance to think any vehicle will pollute less driving 100 miles a day instead of 10. But most important, who in sam hill is forcing you or anybody else to pay the cost? When I lived on the farm, we used 2 pickups. When I got old enough to need one, I bought one that was 10 years old. As soon as we knew it would work we could pull the 14 year old one out of service long enough to rebuild the engine. Emission standards have been on heavy duty diesel pickups for what 13 years? If you don't want to pay the cost, drive the old truck, or buy a gasser. Actually it is not pure ignorance when speaking in terms of PM and NOx. Read more about these two and you will know what I mean. NOx is is only bad in lower atmosphere, but is good ozone in upper atmosphere. In highly populated areas where it does not have time to dissipate in the stratosphere, it is harmful to humans. However, in less populated areas where it does have time to dissipate into the stratosphere to become good ozone, it is not harmful. CO and CO2 on the other hand(which gassers mainly emit) do stay in the air regardless of where you are at.
ShinerBock 12/04/19 10:26am Tow Vehicles
RE: Goodbye DPF and soot?

It can’t happen fast enough as far as I’m concerned. This kind of thinking and innovation is what’s going to solve our climate/environmental problems, not the “Ban it (everything you’re currently doing) and cram it (my half-baked plan du jour down your throat) nonsense coming from politicians mouths. :):) Strange. Most of what I hear from politicians in power is "IT AIN'T HAPPENING!" What I don't understand is person 1 can be driving the car he can afford, maintaining it as well as he can, gets a ticket because of a little smoke. At the same time, person 2, that can afford to drive what he wants, spends more than person 1 makes in 2 years for a truck, then gets on the 'net and brags about modifying the truck so it no longer meets the emission standards. Never seen this happen on the road and there have been plenty of times where I was behind a gas job that was spewing all sorts of smoke. The other portion of this is who is making the regulation and depending on how you trust them. Many people do not even know what the regulation is yet they will blindly follow whatever the EPA states even though our regulations allow for more CO2 and CO than many other standards like the EU. The EU has a much higher NOx limit than the US which allows their diesels to run more efficiently and have much lower CO2 and CO limits which gas engines emit more of. There is also the factor that many of these emissions like NOx and PM are only harmful in heavily populated areas where it does not have a chance to dissipate, but since it is a one size fits all system, those of us in rural areas have to abide by the same emissions regulation (with less fuel economy and a more costly emissions system) all because someone wants to live in a city. Why should I have to pay the price because others do not want to move away from their favorite metro area coffee shop. Another fact is that many of the new direct injected gassers emit just as much(if not more) PM as diesels, but since people cannot see it they assume it is cleaner.
ShinerBock 12/04/19 07:56am Tow Vehicles
Goodbye DPF and soot?

I have said in the past that given the proper amount of time diesel engine manufacturers would come out with better ways to reduce emissions while making the engine more powerful and efficient similar to how gasoline engine manufacturers did through the 70's, 80's, and 90's. It seems that is coming to fruition with Bosch's new dual SCR system that dramatically reduces NOx and this new invention that came to mind from a simple Bunsen burner doing the same for soot. It seems that the days of diesels DPF's and soot may be numbered. Best of all, it seems that it can be retrofitted to current diesels at little cost and it worked better with renewable diesel fuels. Diesel innovation has humble beginnings Truck Trend - Technological Innovations Video - Ducted Fuel Injection
ShinerBock 12/03/19 07:36am Tow Vehicles
RE: Have our trucks got too much power yet?

While I like 500 crank hp in stock form on a diesel truck, I don't like what they will have to do to get it there to keep emissions in check. That means pushing fuel systems to their limits and adding more unreliable emissions equipment. I am more of a fan of adding reliable power after it rolls off the assembly line. It would be nice if they added the ability to change power levels on the fly like a tuner does. When you are not towing, it is safe to run higher powered tunes and switch to lower power tunes depending on load and temps. Although, most trucks(both gas and diesel) already do this without a switch and most people don't know it. And you have engines with the CP4.2 pump producing 400hp and less. Based on the way they achieve their dyno numbers and pull less power under load(from my experiences), yes. There is big difference between advertising power that can only be sustained unloaded or under light load and power that can be sustained at it's heaviest rated load. There is a reason why every review site from PUTC to TFLTruck says that the Cummins, while slow unloaded(partially due to the slow shifting Aisin), is the least effected by a load.
ShinerBock 12/03/19 06:39am Tow Vehicles
RE: Adding air bags: can that increase payload capacity?

^ Except this thread isn't about 3/4 vs 1 ton and the suspension isn't the limiting factor in the OP's case (as you pointed out, it's easily up-gradeable). Stability of having training wheels attached and rear tire/rim capacity if that is a concern are the major differences in the OP's case. Yeah, I know which is why I said I would go to a bigger truck(like a DRW) for that big of a trailer in an earlier post. I just figured the thread was already dead since the OP already got his answer so I would ask my question based on someone saying to go to a bigger truck if they needed suspension aides earlier in the thread. Not really a 3/4 ton versus 1 ton thing. More of a, what is the difference between suspension aides and installing the exact same suspension as the bigger truck if all else is the same.
ShinerBock 12/02/19 03:33pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Adding air bags: can that increase payload capacity?

This got me thinking. If all of the parts on a 3/4 ton truck is identical to a 1 ton besides the rear suspension. What would be the difference between swapping the 3/4 ton suspension for the 1 ton suspension increasing effective capacity -or- adding air bags/Timbrens/Sumosprings to the 3/4 ton suspension that effectively increases it to the same carrying capacity? I know you will never be able to change ratings because that would cost a lot of money to send it to a final builder, however, you can increase the actual carrying ability by either swapping the suspension to a 1 ton or adding suspensions aides that allow it to carry the same weight. What would be the difference in what these two options can safely and reliably tow/haul if they both increase the carrying ability the same amount? You're obviously dragging a fat worm through the lake here, but the sad thing is I can recall and instance or two where a guy traded in a 2500 for a same model SRW 3500 based on advice from this site, effectively paying who knows how much for a new fender decal and payload sticker. A $200 set of Timbrens would have accomplished the same thing for a lot less money. Exactly! I want to hear from the people who told him that information. If the rear suspension is the only difference between a 1 ton and 3/4 ton, what is the difference in actual carrying ability(not rated or door number) between swapping a 1 ton suspension on a 3/4 ton -or- adding a suspension aide that adds the same increase in capacity of the 3/4 ton. The notion that if you need a suspension aide then you might as well step up to another truck is pure garbage because I have seen DRW 350/350, 450/4500 and eve 550/5500 trucks with suspension aides. Heck, they even sell them from the factory now.
ShinerBock 12/02/19 12:25pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Adding air bags: can that increase payload capacity?

^That got you thinking? Lol Shiner, you already know that answer..... you’re just trying to keep the 10 page discussion lively? Yeah, I have my answer, but some of the responses here makes me think that some either don't think it is the same thing or haven't put to two and two together.
ShinerBock 12/02/19 09:57am Tow Vehicles
RE: Have our trucks got too much power yet?

While I like 500 crank hp in stock form on a diesel truck, I don't like what they will have to do to get it there to keep emissions in check. That means pushing fuel systems to their limits and adding more unreliable emissions equipment. I am more of a fan of adding reliable power after it rolls off the assembly line. It would be nice if they added the ability to change power levels on the fly like a tuner does. When you are not towing, it is safe to run higher powered tunes and switch to lower power tunes depending on load and temps. Although, most trucks(both gas and diesel) already do this without a switch and most people don't know it.
ShinerBock 12/02/19 08:53am Tow Vehicles
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