| |
Subject |
Author |
Date Posted |
Forum
|
 |
RE: EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks
As a follow up: Virtually no one pays cash up front for rooftop solar here. There are more financial gimmicks than I can count being used. I know of one person who thought he had his house sold...But the buyer backed out after finding out the details of the "leased" solar system on the house. So figuring ROI accuratly is not possible for many.
Just like buying automobiles and RVs, financial tricks can hide the true cost.
|
Huntindog
|
01/18/23 03:50am |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks
Huntingdog,
Even HERE in the cloudy rainy Seattle area. The few I know that have roof top solar, figure they've paid for the system in savings 3-5 yrs down the road. Use less of the power grid power. Maybe saving a salmon or two or three. Probably not......
The question I would have for your neighbors, is what % savings are they seeing? Yrs before an ROI hits pocket book? No one that I know with a roof top solar expects a full "I'm off the grid" from solar. On some days in summer, they do produce more than the use. I'm having personally a hard time seeing the bad part of residential solar.
It will help. Solve the WHOLE problem being discussed? NO! Every bit helps
MartyI wasn't talking about the financial aspects (though that does't make sense either) but what Ramble was claiming that a certain amount of solar could totally replace non green power. Everyone thinks that solar will produce rated power. Those of us that have solar on our RVs, know that is not true...There is also a belief that a place like Phoenix is 100% perfect for solar.. Also not true. Though their is plenty of sunshine, there is also plenty of heat. As panels heat up, output drops. So when you really need maximum output from the panels to supply the AC, at the hottest part of the day, you will not get rated output.
As a case in point: My RV when at home in Phoenix has NEVER even come close to rated output. About 1300 watts out of 1860 is the best it can do. I have seen slighty more than rated output in May, at 9000 ft. where it is cool.
|
Huntindog
|
01/18/23 03:19am |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks
Grover I'm all for nuclear power, if you can tell me how and where to safely store the waste. Until that happens I'm anti nuclear.
I believe that there are plenty of good options for storage.
That is pretty naive.
Fact is no country anywhere in the world has a long term disposal site In operation.
No one wants high-level nuclear waste in their backyard.
So nuclear waste sits at open and closed nuclear plants, a huge security risk.
Look at the radioactive half lives of the high-level waste components:
Technetium-99 211,000 years
Tin-126 230,000 years
Selenium-79 327,000 years
Zirconium-93. 1,530,000 years
Caesium-135. 2,300,000 years
Palladium-107. 6,500,000 years
Iodine-129. 15,700,000 years
If we continue on our current path how long do we have before climate change kills us all? The climate change activists seem to think it will be before the natural deaths of my children. How do you compare potential deaths 15,000 years out to sure deaths within the lifetimes of your children? Or, are you saying that climate change isn't really all that bad?
Keep in mind that we probably only need to buy another 50 years or so before fusion is viable and fusion doesn't make those types of waste.
I still believe that if we can get past the NIMBY attitude there are solutions to nuclear storage that will either outlast our civilization or until even better solutions will be found.
I know what the problems are, I want to hear solutions.
Nuclear is a dead end. However states rights and all that so if the SE US wants to add to their nuclear plant collection and dispose of the waste there feel free.
Solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, and green hydrogen can cover all the needs of the US. A 100 x 100 mile solar array and converted to green hydrogen and piped to power plants around the US can produce all the electricity needed. Use your engineer math skills, I did.
A 100 x 200 mile solar array can replace all oil usage in the US. Green hydrogen + CO2 can produce any fossil fuel. Green hydrogen can be stored in salt domes just like oil & gas.
In fact in Delta Utah they are working on just that, a green hydrogen plant with storage in 2 salt dome caverns, room for 300 GWh of storage. And room for 98 more caverns. Compared to the US installed base of utility lithium batteries of 2 GWh. Delta plant will run a mix of natural gas and hydrogen initially in their power plant, going to 100% hydrogen by 2045.
SoCalGas is working on mixing hydrogen with natural gas then extracting pure hydrogen from the mix with a membrane. That would make for easy hydrogen distribution to gas stations. SoCalGas is also going to test a hydrogen fuel cell F-550 from Ford.
Check out this Hyundai Nexo hydrogen with 380 mile range and 5 minute 100% refueling:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP._XF3OuboQWmwM2OfCmkYwwHaD8%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=f7ae26b9422645ca34922cf7e463d5228f51635660096ed097ecb6f767099a11&ipo=images height=240 width=480
I think your figures are wildly optimistic.
I am in Phoenix where sunshine is abundant. Probably half my neighborhoods roofs are covered with solar panels. I have yet to speak to a single person that doesn't still buy electricity from APS. You just cannot make enough on your roof to power your home. The solar systems help reduce the amount one must buy but does not eliminate it
|
Huntindog
|
01/17/23 03:41pm |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: Rivian R1S
Not of great interest to Class A, B and C Rvers. I am still waiting to get a report on using a Rivian as a toad. If it works I might just trade....
Could it be setup to add braking on a downhill? Regenerative?
|
Huntindog
|
01/17/23 04:50am |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks
Too many things do not make any sense.
At a time when we are all being pushed into EVs, and electricity supply is constrained.... We have companies with warehouses full of computers running 24/7 To "mine" fake money. The electricity wasted doing this could have far better and more productive uses.. Then this fake money is sold to a greater fool for real money in the hopes that an even greater fool will come along and pay even more for it. So long as we as a society fall into this madness, I do not see how we can possibly affect the climate in a positive way.
I have a long list of things that do not make any sense,,but this is enough for now
I would not put EVs in the same group as bitcoin... that is a whole different problem... It is a different one for sure. If it wasn't for the fact that they suck up a lot of elctricity, which is likely not produced in a green manner.....We should just enjoy the show. Unfortunatly the big problem is that it still has a lot of followers.
|
Huntindog
|
01/16/23 08:32am |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks
Too many things do not make any sense.
At a time when we are all being pushed into EVs, and electricity supply is constrained.... We have companies with warehouses full of computers running 24/7 To "mine" fake money. The electricity wasted doing this could have far better and more productive uses.. Then this fake money is sold to a greater fool for real money in the hopes that an even greater fool will come along and pay even more for it. So long as we as a society fall into this madness, I do not see how we can possibly affect the climate in a positive way.
I have a long list of things that do not make any sense,,but this is enough for now
|
Huntindog
|
01/15/23 06:43pm |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?
My Coach has an 18CF fridge. I have yet to see a 12V fridge that big. I have looked at the specs on some 8CF ones. They are remarkably similar in specs. All of them would drain a 100 AH Battle Born battery every day. So I am pretty sure an 18CF 12V would need two 100 AH batteries each day. To keep my current amount of headroom for bad events, I would need to add 3 Battle Born 100AH batteries. Then I would need to add enough solar to feed them. That is not happening. Not enough room on the roof, and my Solar controllers are maxed out.
I am not interested in going on a electricity consumption diet.
I will keep my gas fridge, thank you very much
|
Huntindog
|
01/15/23 10:04am |
Travel Trailers
|
|
RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?
I have what most would consider to be a healthy solar/battery system. But if I were to add a 12V fridge to the draw, I would come up short a lot.... And adding to what already have is not so easy. It would be quite expensive, and make my roof so full that I would not have room to do maintainence up there.
Saying the additonal cost would be minimal. just shows that you do not have a clue as to what is involved. Another controller, another wire run up to the roof more fuses, more panels, more batteries more cables etc. Using what I consider to be quality stuff (to match what I already have), would be at least 3k. Probably closer to 4K
If you really have a "healthy" solar/battery system, you shouldn't have any problem running a 12v fridge.
I'm borderline with a 50w panel and a couple of basic 12v batteries. I'm light on solar but not by a large amount. Adding a 100w panel and it would cover it easily. That's a pretty minimal solar/battery system.
So far I haven't bothered as we only boondock on occasion and running the generator for an hour or two for other purposes, typically gets the batteries back up where they belong.
If you are looking at $3-4k to add an extra 100w of panels and maybe 1 extra battery, you are getting taken by your installer.
First off, I installed my system, so I KNOW what I am TALKING about.
Second and finally.... Your way of camping doesn't appeal to me anymore.
If I still camped like you, I'd probably still be tent camping
|
Huntindog
|
01/15/23 04:36am |
Travel Trailers
|
|
RE: EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks
RVing comes in many flavors. It seems when discussing EVs as tow vehicles the only flavor of RVing many people want to focus on the hauling a >6000lbs TT/5th wheel on a multi day cross country trip. An EV is currently not a good TV for this flavor of RVing.
Another flavor of RVing is hauling a <6000lb TT or an even lighter PU a few hrs from home to a campground for a weekend camping trip using their daily commuting vehicle as the TV. Is everyone willing to bet the current EVs could not fulfill this function? Don’t forget most of the population won’t be towing “the Ike” on a weekend camping trip.
map40,
Define long distance?
Define heavy loads.
OK, it is all relative. The heavier the load and the longer the distance, the more inconvenient EVs are. For example:
Towing a small trailer (3500-5000#) with a F150 lightning extended range will do close to 200 - 225 miles at highway speeds. At that point you have to find a charging station, but most won't accommodate a truck and trailer, so you may have to drop the trailer, charge for 1 hour, hook up again and get on your way.
Add to that "range anxiety" and the fact that CCS chargers are not the most reliable network, I would not wait until I have 25 miles left in the tank to charge, so now the range goes down to a usable 175 miles.
If you go bigger (think Tesla Semi) you have a 900KWs and can do 500miles at 62mph. But to recharge you need a special charger (1000V) or 10 hours in a supercharger WITHOUT your trailer, and that is if your semi cab fits in the charger parking lot. So the Tesla Semi can only work between predetermined locations.
Let's go smaller, you have a small trailer or a pop-up and you are towing with a Tesla, you range may go down between 30-50%, you may have around 180 miles of range, but being a small car you can drop the trailer and charge in a supercharger.
Also where you live affects the equation. Fuel prices and temperatures affect the calculation. EVs excel in stop-and-go and low speed driving because of the high efficiency and regenerative braking.
EVs work when they are less expensive and the savings justify the inconvenience (or the inconvenience is non-existent). For example, I drive an I3. I can drive my daily drive on battery, but if I ever have to go longer, I have a built-in generator that allows me to go as long as I need without ever charging. I very rarely use the generator, but it eliminates range anxiety and gives me complete freedom with no limitation.
Every case is different, but in general terms, the heavier the vehicle and the longer the distance, the more problematic it becomes for the EVs.
Hopefully this explains my point. The EV market today is not ruled by environmentalists, it is ruled by people who want a lower cost of ownership or want some of the advantages of the EVs (Speed, acceleration, charge it at home, etc)
All this dropping the trailer to refuel.Sounds like great fun.:E
I unhook my coach once. When I arrive at my destination:B
|
Huntindog
|
01/14/23 04:53pm |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: Armada to Pull 33' Lightweight TT
Before even looking at the weights, A TT that size has a LOT of sail area. Perhaps a large pop up would give you the room you need, without the large sail. Probably be lighter as well.
|
Huntindog
|
01/14/23 04:39pm |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks
A few days ago the Wall Street Journal had an article about what it presently takes for renewables to supply power 24/7.
Apparently it has been done on a small scale in several locations. The common theme was that it takes 3 times the capacity of a conventional power plant AND an incredible amount of batteries to achieve the level of reliability we are used to. They flat out concluded that it cannot be done with todays technology.. It would take too much real estate and cost way too much.
So we are going headlong down a road that presently has a bad ending.
Will a better way be developed?..... Maybe and maybe not. One thing is certain. Companies will only continue down this road if makes financial sense. Presently Governments are providing enough incentives to make it so. But even they cannot afford to do this at the level it will take to be green. One thing is certain. Buisinesses will not shoulder the cost alone, as long as they know it is not the ultimate solution. As they would be loath to pay for all the stranded costs of a failed experiment IF a better way forward is found.I assume there is an agenda or bias within the reporting.
Post the article at length so we can have real comments.
It wasn't a factual, in-depth article, it was on the "Opinions" page.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/electric-vehicle-ev-power-grid-electricity-shortage-11652302212
BYW, this article is subscription/password based, but it's someone's opinion, same as anyone posting here.That is not the right article.
The one I was talking about did not even mention EVs.
Nor did I in my post
Fair enough, but to avoid this it helps to actually post or quote the article. We have to guess. I imagine the article you're referencing is also someone's opinion.I did not take it as an opinion piece. It was not in the opinion section, and they quoted sources and used specific projects in different countries and businesses. I had a thought that I might be able to find it on my digital WSJ app. I was not. The oldest it shows is Jan.5
so I cannot PROVE it to everyones satisfaction.... But I think that any level headed person can see that it makes sense.
The green proponents cannot deny the issue. They always state the solution will be found. All we need to to do is go all in.
That is a BIG,BIG bet.
|
Huntindog
|
01/11/23 07:37am |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks
A few days ago the Wall Street Journal had an article about what it presently takes for renewables to supply power 24/7.
Apparently it has been done on a small scale in several locations. The common theme was that it takes 3 times the capacity of a conventional power plant AND an incredible amount of batteries to achieve the level of reliability we are used to. They flat out concluded that it cannot be done with todays technology.. It would take too much real estate and cost way too much.
So we are going headlong down a road that presently has a bad ending.
Will a better way be developed?..... Maybe and maybe not. One thing is certain. Companies will only continue down this road if makes financial sense. Presently Governments are providing enough incentives to make it so. But even they cannot afford to do this at the level it will take to be green. One thing is certain. Buisinesses will not shoulder the cost alone, as long as they know it is not the ultimate solution. As they would be loath to pay for all the stranded costs of a failed experiment IF a better way forward is found.I assume there is an agenda or bias within the reporting.One should NEVER ASSume.
It shows a closed mind. Or someone who will not even consider any facts that do not support your viewpoint.
Post the article at length so we can have real comments.
|
Huntindog
|
01/11/23 03:57am |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks
A few days ago the Wall Street Journal had an article about what it presently takes for renewables to supply power 24/7.
Apparently it has been done on a small scale in several locations. The common theme was that it takes 3 times the capacity of a conventional power plant AND an incredible amount of batteries to achieve the level of reliability we are used to. They flat out concluded that it cannot be done with todays technology.. It would take too much real estate and cost way too much.
So we are going headlong down a road that presently has a bad ending.
Will a better way be developed?..... Maybe and maybe not. One thing is certain. Companies will only continue down this road if makes financial sense. Presently Governments are providing enough incentives to make it so. But even they cannot afford to do this at the level it will take to be green. One thing is certain. Buisinesses will not shoulder the cost alone, as long as they know it is not the ultimate solution. As they would be loath to pay for all the stranded costs of a failed experiment IF a better way forward is found.I assume there is an agenda or bias within the reporting.
Post the article at length so we can have real comments.
It wasn't a factual, in-depth article, it was on the "Opinions" page.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/electric-vehicle-ev-power-grid-electricity-shortage-11652302212
BYW, this article is subscription/password based, but it's someone's opinion, same as anyone posting here.That is not the right article.
The one I was talking about did not even mention EVs.
Nor did I in my post
|
Huntindog
|
01/10/23 04:58pm |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks
A few days ago the Wall Street Journal had an article about what it presently takes for renewables to supply power 24/7.
Apparently it has been done on a small scale in several locations. The common theme was that it takes 3 times the capacity of a conventional power plant AND an incredible amount of batteries to achieve the level of reliability we are used to. They flat out concluded that it cannot be done with todays technology.. It would take too much real estate and cost way too much.
So we are going headlong down a road that presently has a bad ending.
Will a better way be developed?..... Maybe and maybe not. One thing is certain. Companies will only continue down this road if makes financial sense. Presently Governments are providing enough incentives to make it so. But even they cannot afford to do this at the level it will take to be green. One thing is certain. Buisinesses will not shoulder the cost alone, as long as they know it is not the ultimate solution. As they would be loath to pay for all the stranded costs of a failed experiment IF a better way forward is found.
There are a many reports in favor as there are against them. If what the reports against it say is true, why are all automakers going into it? NO AUTOMAKER WOULD GO INTO EVS IF THE REAL CASE WAS THAT BAD. Will it replace ICEs? NO WAY, THE TECHNOLOGY IN ITS CURRENT PATH CAN'T. When we learn to evaluate things objectively with no preconceptions or politics we will understand that EVs are just a variant type of vehicle that thanks to the advance of technology is now getting into the masker after 140 of being invented (remember, EVs are older than ICEs).The automakers are being forced into it by the govt. with a carrot and stick aproach. The head of Toyota has pubilicly stated that the present path cannot succeed. He also said that many others in the biz say the same thing privately.
I installed solar on my RV. I think it is cool to be able to run a lot of my RV off of it. But seeing what it took for just my RV... I just cannot see how it can scale up to replace the power generation we now enjoy... Especially with the way we waste power.
Think about this: There are many companies with warehouses full of computers running nonstop.... To make imaginary money!
It is so bad that Musk stopped taking bit coin because of the amount of electricity being consumed to produce it!
|
Huntindog
|
01/10/23 01:13am |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks
A few days ago the Wall Street Journal had an article about what it presently takes for renewables to supply power 24/7.
Apparently it has been done on a small scale in several locations. The common theme was that it takes 3 times the capacity of a conventional power plant AND an incredible amount of batteries to achieve the level of reliability we are used to. They flat out concluded that it cannot be done with todays technology.. It would take too much real estate and cost way too much.
So we are going headlong down a road that presently has a bad ending.
Will a better way be developed?..... Maybe and maybe not. One thing is certain. Companies will only continue down this road if makes financial sense. Presently Governments are providing enough incentives to make it so. But even they cannot afford to do this at the level it will take to be green. One thing is certain. Buisinesses will not shoulder the cost alone, as long as they know it is not the ultimate solution. As they would be loath to pay for all the stranded costs of a failed experiment IF a better way forward is found.I assume there is an agenda or bias within the reporting.
Post the article at length so we can have real comments. I threw that paper out. I subscribe so they pile up fast. And that doesn't make DW happy.
I am sure it can be found... I will say that the WSJ is the only paoer I read, as it is quality journalism. I do not belive that they have an agenda. This article gave specifics on what countries and companies were involved in these cases.
At any rate it makes sense to me. Just from what I had to do to my RV to get some solar power,,,I do not see how that could possibly be scaled up to replace the power generation we have now. Even if we carpeted the country with panels... Which is not feasable for several reasons
|
Huntindog
|
01/10/23 12:57am |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks
A few days ago the Wall Street Journal had an article about what it presently takes for renewables to supply power 24/7.
Apparently it has been done on a small scale in several locations. The common theme was that it takes 3 times the capacity of a conventional power plant AND an incredible amount of batteries to achieve the level of reliability we are used to. They flat out concluded that it cannot be done with todays technology.. It would take too much real estate and cost way too much.
So we are going headlong down a road that presently has a bad ending.
Will a better way be developed?..... Maybe and maybe not. One thing is certain. Companies will only continue down this road if makes financial sense. Presently Governments are providing enough incentives to make it so. But even they cannot afford to do this at the level it will take to be green. One thing is certain. Buisinesses will not shoulder the cost alone, as long as they know it is not the ultimate solution. As they would be loath to pay for all the stranded costs of a failed experiment IF a better way forward is found.
|
Huntindog
|
01/09/23 07:20pm |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?
I have what most would consider to be a healthy solar/battery system. But if I were to add a 12V fridge to the draw, I would come up short a lot.... And adding to what already have is not so easy. It would be quite expensive, and make my roof so full that I would not have room to do maintainence up there.
Saying the additonal cost would be minimal. just shows that you do not have a clue as to what is involved. Another controller, another wire run up to the roof more fuses, more panels, more batteries more cables etc. Using what I consider to be quality stuff (to match what I already have), would be at least 3k. Probably closer to 4K
With 1800 watts of solar and 800AH of Lithiums I don't think you'd need to do any upgrades for a 12 volt fridge.Maybe you wouldn't. But I would.
|
Huntindog
|
01/06/23 12:01pm |
Travel Trailers
|
|
RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?
DP
|
Huntindog
|
01/06/23 11:58am |
Travel Trailers
|
|
RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?
9 pages later, ^ here’s a good dose of common sense and truth.
Being more “efficient” in one way doesn’t necessarily mean less costly.
Sure both have different advantages and disadvantages but apples to apples, especially if considering replacing a perfectly good absorption fridge, it’s not even close.
Truth depends heavily on the assumptions.
Tearing out a relatively new perfectly functional appliance rarely makes sense, no matter how bad the existing technology is. Are you going to rip out the perfectly functional 5 speed transmission in your truck and retrofit one of the new 10 speed units because it's better...of course not. It's a silly comparison.
If you are boondocking a lot with a single 12v starting battery and no solar, yeah, absorption is by far the better option but that's not a typical use pattern.
Vast majority of RVs rarely operate away from shore power. For these rigs, 12v compressor fridges are better both in terms of efficiency but also in terms of better operation (faster cooldown, able to hold colder temps, larger interior volume, etc....). I'm betting this represents 80-90% of new RV buyers, so this is where the manufacturers are focused.
For those who do a lot of boondocking, most will be installing a larger battery bank and solar anyway. Up sizing it to accommodate the relatively modest requirements of the 12v fridge is easy and doesn't incur a major cost. The cost difference between installing a couple of 200w panels and a couple of 300w panels, is pretty minimal. A few seasons of reduced propane use will cover the cost. I have what most would consider to be a healthy solar/battery system. But if I were to add a 12V fridge to the draw, I would come up short a lot.... And adding to what already have is not so easy. It would be quite expensive, and make my roof so full that I would not have room to do maintainence up there.
Saying the additonal cost would be minimal. just shows that you do not have a clue as to what is involved. Another controller, another wire run up to the roof more fuses, more panels, more batteries more cables etc. Using what I consider to be quality stuff (to match what I already have), would be at least 3k. Probably closer to 4K
|
Huntindog
|
01/06/23 05:15am |
Travel Trailers
|
|
RE: Bearings packed
I am skeptical of the centrifical force and heat moving the grease into the bearings theory. For the past 45 years I have packed bearings the way my father showed me (He farmed until he 35)
Hand pack the bearings, then smear a coating over the spindle and inside the hub. Not a lot, just a coating This is to prevent rust if moisture finds it's way inside. What I have noticed is that at the next service, that grease is pretty much where I put it last time. It is not evenly distributed the way it would be if this "theory" was fact.
And I am in Phoenix AZ where it gets pretty hot... Just not hot enough for my grease to flow. Maybe I just don't drive fast enough for centrifical force to work either,:R
|
Huntindog
|
01/05/23 03:00pm |
Travel Trailers
|
|
