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RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

On my battery spec sheet it says (energy-1536 watt hours) but that really doesn't matter to me because I prefer knowing the amp hours over the watt hours,makes it easier for us dummies..lol Right. 1536/12.8 = 120AH but that 12.8 is "nominal" so you need the "real" voltage to get the "real" AH and the AHs could be any darned thing! Eg, if 13.6v is "full", then 1536/13.6 = 113AH So if you had a Trimetric monitor that wants your "AH capacity when full" to be entered so it can keep track from there, you would enter 113, not that 120. Not a clue what your smart shunt wants! You can fight that out with your monitors and meters, but it has to be tough being an AH man in that strange world. Rather you than me! :)
BFL13 04/15/21 11:18am Tech Issues
RE: On the road, battery and charging problems

Looks like your converter was not working even before you left. Suspect blown reverse polarity fuses from a mistake when installing the new batteries. Easy to check and fix. When you isolated the batteries to check them and the "monitor" did not change when you charged the batts, that could mean the monitor is also isolated. You need your own digital multimeter set to voltage to put on the batteries directly.
BFL13 04/15/21 10:43am Tech Issues
RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

Ok one last shot at it. IMO Steve has it wrong by saying "power" has a time component. AFAIK Watts is "power" and no time, while Wh is the "energy", which is over time. Watts = volts x amps, and the amps might be said to have a time component with its definition of Coulombs per second, but I don't think that is a time component in "power". "Capacity" in Wh or AH is clear enough( 200AH vs 100AH at a given rate), and "twice the power" if that means 800 CCA vs 400 CCA. IMO people are mixing up "power" with "capacity". Should be simple enough to clear that up and end this!
BFL13 04/15/21 08:47am Tech Issues
RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

My plan is to stick with AH and camp same as I always have. You guys can sort out the rest of it. We need a new topic! This thread is dead.
BFL13 04/14/21 08:19pm Tech Issues
RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

Steve, IMO you are mixing up power and energy now. Based on what DrewE and FWC said here (scroll down) I think I have it right that CCA is power and how long the batt can keep cranking is to do with its energy. ("Capacity" should be its energy IMO. Not sure you should say "reserve power" either. Maybe somebody can sort that out) https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30219738/srt/pd/pging/1.cfm FWC's second para relates to my previous notion too, a low power batt with lots of energy like a deep cycle.
BFL13 04/13/21 07:26pm Tech Issues
RE: 12 volt only refrigerator

Seems like a typo thing. Lots of new RVs with 120v only fridge (called "residential"). On that, don't know if they give you a choice of a two-way instead on a new one.
BFL13 04/12/21 07:55pm Tech Issues
RE: Converter wiring question

Hot and ground apply to the 120v input side of the converter. There, white is neutral, ground is green, and black is hot. On the 12v DC output side, white is negative and the other colour is positive (blue in some converter models). White is return on 120v wiring but hot on 12v wiring. That is what has me confused. No. In RVs, DC white is always negative, if the other colour is black or blue or whatever. If the two DC wires are red and black, then now black is negative and red is positive. The output DC wires of the converter do not connect to the "converter"! (ok, they do, but at the inner end) They go the the DC fuse panel which has some lugs on it to take converter 12 v and battery 12v. If the battery wires to those DC fuse panel lugs are red and white, put the converter's white to the neg lug with battery white neg and put the converter's black to the battery's red on the pos lug . DC wires do not have a "hot".
BFL13 04/12/21 06:44pm Tech Issues
RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

If I am right that CCA is "power" , then an experienced RVer is looking for a deep cycle battery with LESS power. He stays away from those starting batteries, and sure would not want one with "Twice the Power".
BFL13 04/12/21 06:21pm Tech Issues
RE: Converter wiring question

Hot and ground apply to the 120v input side of the converter. There, white is neutral, ground is green, and black is hot. On the 12v DC output side, white is negative and the other colour is positive (blue in some converter models).
BFL13 04/12/21 05:47pm Tech Issues
RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

LFP does have twice the "power" (energy?) as you don't have to stop at 50% like FLA. That AGM Odyssey says it has "twice the power" and it would have that 50% idea, for any deep cycling it could do? I have the notion from what I have been told here (but could have got it wrong!) that "power" would be like CCA for a battery, so one with 800 CCA would have twice the power of one with 400 CCA. I think "energy" says how long it can keep doing that cranking. So I don't know why an RVer would be interested in a battery's power at all. How many AHs it can do, yes. And how many times it can be deep-cycled.
BFL13 04/12/21 12:37pm Tech Issues
RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

I think the very high discharge just for a few minutes is for UPS work to hold the fort until the emergency generator spools up. "Twice the power" can be explained with watts and all that mumbo-jumbo, but when you see that and decide " I gotta have one of those, it has twice the power!" What do you as an RVer, expect that 100AH battery will do that the 100AH battery you have now won't do? Run everything twice as long? Run the jacks up and down twice as fast? What does "twice the power" make it able to do for you? So, IMO, since I have no real clue, "power" is a word that sounds great, but what I see is a 100AH battery and another 100AH battery. With FLAs, I know one night be marine/rv and the other true deep cycle and what to expect there.
BFL13 04/12/21 10:00am Tech Issues
RE: Inverter to run outside fridge

You have a truck towing a trailer. It is just to keep the drinks and some food cold while driving till you can get 120v for the fridge. You can try the inverter route with some difficulty as others have posted. Another way is just have a "cooler" that could hold about as much as the outside fridge in the trailer does. Cooler powered from the truck's 12v system. A DC-DC converter might be useful in that role, but maybe not necessary. Cooler could be inside the cab or in the box. "Cooler" could even be another small 120v fridge in the back of the truck box with inverter, where the inverter is powered by the trailer batts on the tongue via fat- wire jumper cables. Might even be able to use the same fridge by just carrying it back and forth between the truck and the trailer if it is not installed in the trailer in an awkward way.
BFL13 04/11/21 03:34pm Tech Issues
RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

Yes, although I also want to do more ordinary RV min with the batts , not just the high draw trick. I got the idea that Odyssey was mor like a starting battery vs a deep cycle so it would do the high draws better but maybe not the regular RV duty as well . Could be wrong, don't know. I can't find my notes doing high draws with the ordinary AGM a few years ago. The SiO2 has a higher set of voltages than the ordinary AGM, which means it goes lower before hitting the inverter alarm. So the time an AGM can run the MW is less than the time an SiO2 can do it just from that. Then there is any difference in energy (if any) or however you express that, where it can do it for longer on top of that voltage advantage. LFPs have even higher voltages than the SiO2. Whatever---all the RVer wants to know is if he can do whatever he does now better by swapping battery types. No use if the new battery will do tricks he will never do.
BFL13 04/11/21 10:24am Tech Issues
RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

I have seen that where they say it maintains the same "capacity" But it still runs for less time the higher the draw. They say 1C for an hour is the same "capacity" as 0.05C for 20 hrs like using RC instead of AH. Peukert has it running for less time the higher the draw too, with fewer AH at the higher draws Then they start using "twice the power" or more energy density. Makes me feel I am being flim-flammed. However, after some digging, it turns out they just mean it can do the high draw for longer than Brand X, not that it does not take less time than a lower draw would. Can't help it--as soon as I see "power" and "energy" in the advertisement I get all paranoid they are messing with my mind. Just give me my Trimetric monitor and AHs and let me go camping and everything will come out right :)
BFL13 04/11/21 09:18am Tech Issues
RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

3 tons, Since SiO2 can handle a 243 amp draw from a single 100 amp-hour battery, I guess you are right. Li is a biplane. LOL! With the caveat that BFL was only able to use ~39 Ah out of his 100 Ah battery at a relatively tame 0.65C draw. We don't actually have any data for this supposed '243A draw', but based on the Peukert calculations from BFL's test, at 243A, you will get a grand total of 14Ah out of the battery and be flat in 3.6 minutes. The spec table does it by ever higher draws taking less time to "end voltage" and for the same 5 minute time a lower end voltage for a higher draw https://soneil.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/12-EFSM-100.pdf Be good to see a table like this for LFPs. BTW. I think a 0.65C draw for over half an hour is pretty good. I tried AGMs doing that sort of thing, because full-mosey reported he was having good luck doing that with his. They did it, but they took a beating. The SiO2 is supposed to "keep on ticking", so ask me in a few years if that is true. The table says the 243 amp draw will last 5 minutes with end voltage about 1.82 ? /cell = 10.92v There is no BMS, so up to you to turn the load off before it is too late looks like.
BFL13 04/11/21 07:56am Tech Issues
RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

Interesting numbers! Looks like average 65 amps solar to the batts for 5 hrs plus any for loads so 65/500 = 0.13C Then with a/c on you were also running about 15 DC amps worth of other loads. If I got that right.
BFL13 04/10/21 09:08pm Tech Issues
RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

"Post not shown due to blocked member 3 tons. Click here to edit your blocked list." That is what I see now. Such peace! The system works. On that, note if the one you block is the OP of a thread, that whole thread disappears, not just his posts. Anyone can block me too, if it will make him feel better :)
BFL13 04/10/21 07:45pm Tech Issues
RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

OP here-- This thread ended at 0908 this morning and is now about Si02 vs LFP it seems. Whatever, but if folks want others to read that new discussion, many will probably miss it, having seen the OP question answered back at 0908. Might be away to start a new thread on the new topic and transfer the posts since 0908 that apply to that new thread ? I don't know if that can be done. Or just carry on.
BFL13 04/10/21 07:13pm Tech Issues
RE: Is my inverter fried?

What is the "12v" voltage at the inverter/charger's DC terminals (not at the battery terminals) ? If zero- the inverter's fuse (or DC breaker) blew, and the inverter /charger needs 12v to be on at all. Test for that by using jumper cables direct from battery to inverter charger. Could be other things of course. EDIT--the air conditioner controls are 12v too which would explain the fan not working second time?
BFL13 04/10/21 06:31pm Tech Issues
RE: LFP on Shore Power with Inverter/charger?

I'll be interested in the high draw items and length of time before the battery voltage/ inverter tags out with Si02.; I tested for that in the TC to see if the one 100AH would run the inverter with MW draw like I bought it to do. Each set-up would act differently what with wiring and equipment, but The Trimetric showed a 65 amp draw fairly steady for about 35 -40 minutes roughly before the inverter quit due to low voltage. Bounce back voltage soon after is 20% on the chart, but there is suspicion SOC would be higher if I had waited a day for a higher "resting " voltage. The result I got matches the spec constant current discharge chart for 67 amps and 45 minutes to "end voltage" so at least that part came out right. The problem is those tables don't say when your inverter will conk out, just what the "end voltage" is. With the "flat" LFP voltage, you should be above inverter shut down farther along towards "end voltage" and you are already ahead of the game by having way higher voltages per SOC than the SiO2's. Scroll down to the table on page 2 https://soneil.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/12-EFSM-100.pdf It would interesting to see an LFP one to compare times per constant amps at selected high amps discharge. Anybody have a link to an LFP one? Note the SiO2's IR is 6.5 mOhms, An ordinary AGM's is about 5 mOhms, and an LFP's is way low, so high draw is not all about IR, but could be a factor I suppose. I disagree with PT suggesting SiO2 could be an alternative to LFP. I think they are two different animals, which each fitting certain scenarios. EG, the blurb says SiO2 caught on in Oz because of the high ambient temp they could be used at, and only later got noticed in North America. Whatever, no skin off my nose. I ended up having to buy a second one with a changed scenario (DW moved the goalposts :) ) so if she had done that earlier I could have just got two AGMs for the job at hand. Oh well--now I am the proud owner of two SiO2s. Big warning there for LFP buyers! Get the scenario straight first unless you have deep pockets.
BFL13 04/10/21 05:45pm Tech Issues
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